Assault on Video Games

[Dotanuki]

Here in Cleveland, we just had a young 14 year old male go into school and shoot his teachers and fellow classmates then turn the gun on himself.
The first words out of the school officials and the media were "he is a Marilyn Manson fanatic and plays violent video games!!"
He was a 14 year old white Goth rocker in a school that was 90% black and was getting into fights everyday. Yet the schools and media say the shooting wasn't racially motivated, it was those damn video games!!!
A 14 year old looking at 3 more years of high school hell, while the school system looks the other way. The school system liked it better in the old days, when the student committed suicide and they could just brush it under the rug. Now when the students come shooting up the school, do you think they would address the problem, nope!! must be those damn video games.
Here in Cleveland the school system is a joke, it has been that way for decades. Back when my son was in high school they were filming episodes of "Cops" in his high school!! My son is 30 now, and the school system has only gotten worse not better.
I know for many young people the only escape from the world they have, is to lose themselves in their video games [adults too!!].
And that damn Marilyn Manson and his devil music!! If that kid was listening to Rap music instead [totally nonviolent message there] this NEVER would have happened.
To any young person that might be going through a similar Hell right now; Don't give up hope! I know things might look hopeless [especially when you're young] Many have suffered the same and even worse [child abuse and molestation]. There is a saying "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger" It might leave you scarred, but definitely stronger, Nobody ever said life was going to fair, it is going to be what you make of it, that will be what defines you in the end.
And don't worry I don't think they will ever ban violent video games or music, because society has to have a scapegoat [we can't address the real problems, because that is no longer politically correct]

[Jason Moore]

Excellent post Dotanuki...I agree with you 100 percent. What about movies?? Why are video games and music(ridiculous) blamed and not movies? I think on the opposite end of the spectrum that video games let you release yourself into a world where things don't have consequences except pressing the start button to continue. I think we all have thoughts (sometimes quite evil) but what stops us from acting on them is what makes us sane. Video games and music lets us release our inhibitions without penalty...

[Brian Brazier]

I have a big problem with these tragedies falling on the shoulders of music and video games, especially when the most violent thing I come in contact everyday with is the 5:00 news, which I think glamorizes these incidents to some degree. In every instance someone has gone told the school that there is a problem here, I think he or she is going to do something, and every time the school does nothing till it is too late, and every time something happens its the music and video games, not the lack of initiative by the school and local authorities, are the ones who shoulder the blame

[Mako]

This was on the BBC News...not in great depth and there was no mention of 'video games' but Dotanuki's post reminded me of when John Lennon was shot dead in NYC and if I remember correctly,the defence Attorneys of his killer tried to mitigate his action to his reading of 'The Catcher In The Rye'...I wonder what TV programme,book or whatever prompted Charles Whitman [among others] to commit his murders back in the 60s when video games were restricted to Space Invaders and Pacman.
Sorry about any spelling errors but some words are spelled differently on this side of the 'pond'.

[PinoyFili]

Tragic events happen constantly in this world, Some with purpose and some by accident. We are all responsible for our actions no matter what they may be good, bad or otherwise. This boy is no longer around to be held responsible but Blame'n parents, the system, his enviroment, media, video games, t.v. etc. doesn't change the fact that he had a chioce to take these actions or not take these actions. Hind sight is great but it boils down to the fact that the decission is ours to make (or was his in this case)....do we act on anger and do violence or do we act on what is right and show greatness? What happened was sad, unfortunate and a usless waste of life but I don't think there are any fingers to point. Take'n those kids and teachers lives was not an act of survival it was an act of revenge at the world for what ever reason and he knew it was wrong. Why else would he take his own life afterwards? Even at that age he would have known right and wrong in regards to killing others no music or video game can MAKE anyone do anything.....


(sorry for any poor spelling can't type for crap)

[Jason Moore]

Wow, excellent post, I totally agree...
(I didn't see any spelling mustakes ;))

[Dotanuki]

I was watching this story as it unfolded, you could see the reporters getting 'reports' [spin statements] on their headphones. When they interviewed kids on the scene they were contradicting the 'official' reports. Later those interviews with kids were edited out. At one point they even mentioned he might have had D&D books in his room.
Pinofili, this kid didn't commit any suicide over what's right or wrong, he did it to escape the Hell he was living in. He did it in a way that every kid currently going through the same nightmare can appreciate. You say he wasn't in a life or death situation, well you have never been to a Cleveland school. They have had 6 gun incidents so for this year [reported] and that is just the first month of school. First day of school they had a shootout between two rival gangs [didn't hear that in the national news, did you?] in front of their school.
I couldn't even tell you what really happens because it is so outrageous no one would believe me. At my son's old school, they had a kid cut class, go out front of the school and rob a man at gunpoint at a fast food place. then he went back to school the rest of the day. As the man was making a police report he saw the kid getting on a school bus to go home and identified him. They found the gun in the locker next to his, a girl he made hide it [she ratted him out]. When my son went to school, he was threatened by a gang member in the school [with a gun on him] that he was going to "off" him. So going to public school in Cleveland is a life and death situation, every day for these kids. When they release high school every day, there is a police car on every corner of the school [sometimes 2]. It almost looks like they are releasing inmates [maybe they are].
I do believe we have to help these kids, but when the media and society attacks their video games and music because they don't want to address true problems, all they do is further alienate and push these kids into deeper despair and hate for society in general.

[RedZorak]

I is really sad when things like this happen. On top of a tragic loss of life, the ones who should be focusing on how to prevent it blame it on things that have nothing to do with the problem (BTW, where would D&D come into this? There aren't too many guns in there, so it isn't even relavant...). It is also difficult to see members of my generation going through things like this. Something needs to be done, and the only way anything will probably happen is if the entire city rallies behind the cause. My prayers go out to all those involved in the horrible incident, and I hope things change for the better.

[Yaso]

I've had nothing but problems with the public school system. When I started up high school I wasn't very well socially adjusted, so I tried to be the funny guy to fit in. Most of the time, I tried too hard and just made a fool of myself. While earning the ridicule of my classmates, I also earned the contempt of the administration. The only thing I had going for me at that time was my gpa which was over a 4. By my Junior year, I had sharpened up my act. I stopped being stupid funny and was getting in less trouble with the administration. I started making a lot of friends and things were going great. Then one night I thought that it would be a riot if I made a myspace for my principal. It was, the whole school was talking about it and I was an instant celebrity. Two days later, someone ratted me out and I was expelled. At the time I thought that in order to be expelled, you had to do something truly sinister, like stabbing a teacher with a pen, or hiding fish in the ceiling tiles. Apparently, all you have to do is accuse someone in a position of authority of being homosexual. It wasn't exactly fair, but I learned my lesson and I am no longer angry.

What really made me mad was the guidance department. I had to move in with my mom in VA to finish up high school. Since I switched to a new state, the classes were different, the credits were different, and the standardized testing was different. My idiot guidance counselor then made a series of mistakes when transfering my grades. To make a long story short, she took my hard earned 4.3 GPA and dropped it down to a miserable 2.2 simply because she didn't know what she was doing. To make things worse, she refused to fix it. I tried everything to figure out how to get it fixed, only to find out that this was a common problem with apparently no solution unless my guidance counselor was willing to admit that she had made a mistake.

I gave up at that point. I decided that I was going to pass high school, but that was it. I pulled a few crazy stunts similar to what had gotten me expelled to quickly gain popularity. They worked, and within 2 months I was a household name with the students, and was already on the top of the administration's hit list. I only needed 3 classes to graduate by my senior year. I did no work at all until the end of the year. That is not an exaggeration. I had a perfect 70 as my final grade in each of the 3 classes that I needed to pass at the end of the year. The others were all 55's. I was also late to my first class every day. I had an arrangement with my english teacher where I would tell the class an impromptu story explaining why I was late. If they all liked it enough, he wouldn't tell the administration that I was late that day. That aside, I did miss a lot of days. It wasn't long before the school was after me for truancy. After several suspensions for missing school, (the punishment for missing school is missing school?) the school threatened legal action and expulsion. I straightened up my act, but it was too late. I went to court for truancy. I was given 6 months probation (and my swords were all confiscated due to the fact that we weren't allowed to have weapons).

Now, here I am. I graduated with a 1.3 GPA and college is certainly not in sight. Due to the incompetence of my guidance counselor 3 years of hard work were all for nothing. Really I have only myself to blame for doing something stupid enough to get me expelled, but seriously, who could have predicted such a glorious outcome?B-)

[Dotanuki]

How interesting, you don't consider creating a fictional Myspace account, falsely outing someone as a homosexual, potentially ruining their career, as sinister?
In my area, this week, we had the parents of a girl in school, create a fictional account of a boy on Myspace. Who then held a online romance with one of their daughter's girlfriends/schoolmate? They had him break up with her this week, she then committed suicide, I am sure they thought they weren't doing anything sinister either.
Back in the 90's my 14 year old niece was murdered on the way to school in the morning. They found out it was a 26 year old male, who was hanging around with 14 year olds, trying to be cool, it was a thrill kill [no reason, just trying to impress]. They ratted him out too [they always do], He only spent a few months in jail before he hung himself [now THAT was cool]

[jwilliams]

This again goes back to a previous thread that BobO started about banning swords. Whenever something tragic happens society is more comfortable blaming inanimate objects than holding the people accountable. We don't like to look at ourselves and our failed policies for bad things happening. While I do believe that we are influenced by everything we see and hear, be it music, video games, movies or friends and family for good or bad, and we are a result of our experiences, we still have the responsibility to take those experiences and learn from them, not to blame them for our failings. Someone had to know that kid felt like he had no other choice, there had to be signs. Where were the people that cared enough for him to do something to help him. you know he cried out to someone before it got top the point it did, even if it was to complain about being scared.
In Arizona we had a little boy suspended from school for drawing a picture of a gun, not even pointing it at anyone in the drawing, just a gun, he said it was a laser gun. The school officials said they have a zero tolerance policy of guns in school. Where is the common sense?

[Mako]

Due to the incompetence of my guidance counselor 3 years of hard work were all for nothing. Really I have only myself to blame for doing something stupid enough to get me expelled, but seriously, who could have predicted such a glorious outcome?B-)


Sorry man...but you don't have my vote of sympathy...it just doesn't cut with me.
I can only speak for myself but if anyone thinks that the only way that they can gain respect is by pulling stupid stunts...in particular,branding their Principal as something that he isn't...is just plain wrong in my book and blaming other people for your own shortcomings is an easy 'cop out'.
Life ain't easy for most people no matter what part of the World they may live but you have to cut your own path and make the most of where it leads you.
Seems harsh I know but most of us older guys have been there in one way or another but we're still here...so my advice is to get your act together,take a reality check and decide which 'way' you really want to take.

If this post offends you...I apologise but at least it may have served it's purpose.

To others...
...sorry about any apparent spelling mistakes but Anglo/English is often different to American/English.

[Yaso]

In response to Mako and Dotanuki, I did not have any intention at all to make it sound as if I was glorifying what I did. Believe me, I know that it was dumb and I accept full responsibility where it is due. The fact of the matter is that it was several years ago, and I have grown quite a bit since then. What is in the past can not be changed, but all in all, I am glad that I did what I did. If I had not, I would have inevitably learned my lesson later on down the road and undoubtedly faced far more severe consequences (such as making a George Bush myspace and being expelled from the USA). I'm just lucky that my father was one of those "I don't take any crap" parents and made 100% sure that I learned my lesson and knew what I was up against.

The point of my post wasn't about my immaturity, that was simply the back story.

What was truly concerning is just how badly my GPA was butchered in the process. Also that countless other students, (who unlike me move for reasons beyond their control) have the same exact problem with the school systems. With no one willing to step up within the schools to accept responsibility, the problems of these students fall upon deaf ears and the problem is never corrected.

The GPA thing is also just a drop in the bucket compared to some of the other problems that public schools have. I bet that one of the things that first jumps to mind, and seems to be synonymous with the degradation of schools nowadays is that "No Child Left Behind" act. Kids seem to be failing these standardized tests left and right. You know what my radical theory is? The problem isn't the tests, its the students. I've taken these tests and can tell you all that the only possible way to fail them is to either not take them, or to have a severe mental handicap. In NC they are graded on a scale of 1-4 (1 & 2 are failing whereas 3 & 4 are passing). I'm no genius, and with minimal effort I got a 4 on every test I have ever taken.

I have also noticed a contrast beginning to appear in students, as there seems to be no middle ground anymore. Students either work very hard and make nothing but A's, or they do nothing and fail every class but gym. It's become quite fashionable to be a moron lately. With this trend forming, it has made it increasingly difficult for the students with higher aspirations to utilize high school as a launching pad. Simply put, the schools are dumbing everything down a few shades to match the majority of the students. The problem with this is that it won't work at all. People's IQ's aren't dropping with time, it's their will to use them. No matter how easy they make the classes, the students who have decided to do nothing will continue to do nothing.

I don't claim to have a solution, I just call what I see.

[bobO]

Yaso,A well put and mature response if you don't mind me saying so.Welcome to the forum.bobO

[Dotanuki]

Yaso,
I totally agree with your assessment of current school systems. [actually I believe you weren't critical enough]
In Cleveland you would have to add gangs, guns and drugs to your assessment, with teachers main thoughts are of their safety not students. Here the teachers have a special emergency leave, called an assault leave which is a guaranteed medical leave after being attacked/injured in school by students.
Our current government with corporate America seems intent on destroying the middle class and replacing it with indentured or bond servants. They are starting at the school level with this indoctrination. Very few young people seem to care, except for a few, too few [Ben comes to mind as one of the few with a social conscience, which I really admire,Redzorak too]
If you think you had it bad in school, just wait until you find out how our current government treats it's veterans and elderly [especially the elderly!]
If you notice, I say current government, not America.
As far as your future goes, if your resume includes your dirty tricks, you can always get a job in politics [either party] just as long as you show no conscience whatsoever. Actually it's the earmarks for success in the corporate world too. Although just like in school, if something goes wrong they will ratt you out too!!
I see by the posts, many of you don't understand the depth of the madness of a poor urban city school system. I am not talking about the jocks picking on the nerds. I am talking about daily physical assaults, very often pistol whippings or even sexual [same sex, rape] while school officials look on because they are too terrified to do anything about it. This is what they are trying to cover up again in Cleveland with this last shooting [and quite successfully, I might add]. When a child's school experience resembles something out of Showtimes 'OZ' [prison show] how can you expect them to learn anything? Except, how to survive!!

[Jason Moore]

I usually stay out of this type of conversation because I had an easy school coming up (I was also a jerk in school as I thought it was a waste) but it makes me wonder sometimes if we will ever see that day when a teacher goes ballistic and opens up on the students with an assault rifle..:oops:

[bobO]

Reading Dotanuki's post makes me wonder why it hasn't happened already.A very scary thing.

[goose710]

Gentlemen
What i haven't heard here is any talk of parenting? where are they? i cut school and my mom kicked my azz good. if i came home with a note got the chit kicked outta me (by the way it was nessesary to get my attention) not abuse, seems if children "have" parents then a major part of the problem would be solved.
the movie LEAN ON ME is the exact school i went to. although some license was taken in the movie it's basically true ! that principal was run outta dodge for caring for the kids for geez sake. I particulaly liked when he just threw out 300 students that where just there to deal drugs and other nifarious reasons. as to gangs? a kid with a gun or other weapon is just as danguriose as anyone else and in my book will be dealt with on par NO MERCY harsh but nessesary as i see it . after growing up there,where you looked around before going out your door, and nam, i will not be accosted by anyone. and will take such actions as i deem nesesary to insure MY continued ability to earn a living and live in peace. these miscreants should be dealt with first by their parents then school system then police in that order. failure to comply is cause for incarceration /seperation from sociaty/ and banishment to a thrid world country that will literally eat them "TOUGH" guys alive military service is also a good option the lack of compulsery military service at the tenter age of 18 I believe has a lot to blame for todays youth's problems too.
i have a nephew that's doing 12 yrs. in Raway prison in new jersey for car jacking. i don't feel bad for him, dumb chit thought he was tough, now he'll really know what tough is!!!
i've said enough gets under my skin
goose710

[Dotanuki]

Goose,
It is a different time, these kids have no parents, not in the sense as we know it anyway. What happens when a child never experiences a mother's love or a families embrace? They never develop morals or a conscience.
But hate, yes, they know the emotion of hatred more than any other. This is what happens when a child is passed from one family member or friend to another, time after time. I have seen the dead eyes of a killer in a 6 year old boy, some of you will know of what I am talking about. A very disturbing experience.

[Jason Moore]

I have to run, but very quickly on this. I was a foster home child and was passed between homes for most of my young life. I have never hated my mom or anyone else for it. I think it depends on the child and their strength as they grow into an adult. There are many kids who grow up in a nurturing environment and end up being killers...I think it depends on the individual and cannot be blamed on anything but the individual.

[jwilliams]

While I agree with most of what you say and I commend you for doing so well in a bad situation, I think that kids who are already troubled emotionally and then sit around playing violent video games, listening to some of what passes for music have their are only further confused about what is socially and morally acceptable. "Garbage in - garbage out. You are what you eat." Old sayings get to be old because they have usually been proven to be true over the years. You can't put filth in and expect troubled kids and even adults to not be affected. If that were the case then why do we study these concepts of Bushido, Zen or any other religion. Part of the problem with the schools is that they are so concerned about kids passing tests that they are forgetting to teach them how to be responsible citizens like they did when I was a kid. The principal had a paddle hanging up behind his desk and if you had to go see him, you had to deal with your parents when you got home, they didn't talk about suing the school for spanking you. You hoped they didn't find out you went to the principal so you wouldn't get it at home too. You can't even defend yourself at school either. If someone is beating you up and you fight back you get suspended too. What kind of idiocy is that? No wonder kids feel helpless there.

[Yaso]

You can't even defend yourself at school either. If someone is beating you up and you fight back you get suspended too. What kind of idiocy is that? No wonder kids feel helpless there.

The way it was set up at my old school was that you would get 10 days suspension for defending yourself in a fight. A suspension also counted as an unexcused absence. Three unexcused absences and you failed for the year no matter what.

I had a friend that flunked for defending himself. Not only did he did not even slightly provoke the person who attacked him, but only knocked him down and ran away when he easily could have done a lot more.

[jwilliams]

The same thing happened to my oldest son, he ended up with a GED. Some guy threatened to kick his smurf butt because my son had dyed his hair blue,(I wasn't happy about that either) and he tried but lost. My son was 5'7" 120 and the other guy was 6'3". My dad always told me that I better not ever start a fight but I better finish it. I still believe that to be true. As far as I know every state in the U.S. allows a person to defend himself,,,,,unless you're at school. If you witness a Columbine style shooting federal law prohibits you from using a firearm to stop him, unless you're a police officer or an armed security guard hired by the school. How sad is it that schools have to have armed security guards?

[mancosbob]

How sad is it that schools have to have armed security guards?

Somebody has to take Gods place, now that he's been evicted...;)

[jwilliams]

Somebody has to take Gods place, now that he's been evicted...;)

What a poor substitute, not nearly as effective as the real thing. Security guards are purely reactive whereas God is proactive.

[mancosbob]

I can't agree more, but it is what people were told they wanted, so they reap what they sow; probably has something to do with why my kids are in private schools.

[Manocandari]

Im sorry to keep doing this, Im not even sure that its entirely ethical but I have to print another comment here, in fact I would very much like to have written it myself because it says what I believe to be the case with regard to the ethos of many police officers in this country. And, like the writer, I KNOW that not all police are like this: