new security- warning- political tirade

[Richard Johnson]

FYI, NPR just announced that airports in Phoenix and Los Anglese now have the 'backscatter x-ray' machine.
I saw a pic of them in use a few years ago when they forced a woman employee to go through.
They put her pic in the paper. She was totally naked!

So, when you go through security, the rent-a-cops will see you naked and can save the pic for their own use.

Think about this when your teen or pre-teen daughter goes through the airport and you see the security guys whisper to themselves and save her pic for thier private collection.

Americans are the STUPIDEST people in the world.
a recent survey shows that 68% of us cannot find Mexico on a map.
You do not have to speak English to graduate High School.
and we allow our freedoms that we and our fathers fought for to be stripped from us without a fight!
If you own a boat that can travel 90 miles, and the FBI "thinks" (no evidence or proof) that you might somedaywant to go to Cuba, they can take your boat without a warrant or trial or even evidence of travel.

Perhaps we deserve to live in Nazi Amereica.

[Jason Moore]

I usually won't get into politics, but here is my take. I love living in america and can find myself thinking about our freedoms from oppression on a daily basis. I don't even know who the president is, but I thank God I can wake up everyday and do whatever I please. (for the most part)

[Chrisknife&gun]

Your absurd comments don't really deserve a response but I can't help myself.

How can you jump from a problem with the x-ray scanner (by the way I agree with you about the x-ray) to American's being stupid and living in "Nazi America". To compare this country to the likes of Nazi Germany where millions of innocent people were murdered is not only ridciules its offensive.

You said in another thread (where you were also bashing our government) that you spent time in the mid east. How can anyone who has been outside the U.S. not see what a great country we live in. I've been to Asia and Europe and I kissed the ground each time I returned to "Nazi Amerca". Have you ever thought about the fact that if you said these things in Nazi Germany you would be shot? But you are free to say whatever you please in America.

[sumo]

I usually won't get into politics, but here is my take. I love living in america and can find myself thinking about our freedoms from oppression on a daily basis. I don't even know who the president is, but I thank God I can wake up everyday and do whatever I please. (for the most part)
And say what I please .and go where I please.and stay alive after I say what I thank.I have been to a lot of places.none as good as where I am right now.it is not perfect but it is better than the others.....

[Dotanuki]

It is said, that those that fail to learn the lessons of history, are doomed to repeat them.

The reason Nazi Germany became the way it did, was because the Germans loved their country and the idea of Aryan superiority, and no one bothered to question their government while it was murdering all those people.

The reason this country is great, is our freedoms, especially speech. We must always protect against any infringement or we will cease to be America.

Now that being said, This forum has always been a place of friendship, Talking of Politics and Religion is the quickest way to end that. Remember this is primarily a sword and weapons collecting forum, I come here to relax and BS, I am sure there are more appropiate forums on which you can express political and religious views.

Thank You

[Chrisknife&gun]

Sorry I thought this was "General Discussion Something you want to talk about? Say it here!" I'm not mad, just stating my feelings but at your request I will leave it alone.

[Jason Moore]

I beleive what Dotanuki was stating Chris, is that talk all you want about anything you want here, as long as it does not degrade into a fight for or against an ideal. I started this forum because I wanted a place where we can all come to talk about ANYTHING. It just seems that politics and such always goes south quick. As long as it is friendly, please speak your mind. >:D<

[Chrisknife&gun]

I understand and will comply, I just get a little defensive after all the crap I took coming home from Nam.

See my latest thread for lighter things!

[Richard Johnson]

Whenthe FBI asks Congress to legalize second and third degree torture to get confessions, then moves suspects to Cuba where they can deny the basioc human rights... we are no longer free.
When the FBI films themselves setting fire to the Davidian compound in Waco Texas and films their own people machine gunning womenand children as the flee the burning building.. we are no longer free.
When the president daclares Gerrnpeace to be a terrorist organization...
When Homelanmd security announces that they wll arrest for treason anyuone who reports any illegal act Homeland Security does.
When HS threatens to arrest the media if they tell the people the truth about any illegal act they do...
When you are treated as a criminal by any security guard BUT no crime has been committed and they announce that you are guilty until they prove you innocient....
When Bush orders the Internment camps built and people vanish off the streets...

At what point do you say.. "ENOUGH!" and how will you get those lost freedoms back?
Even Russia under Stan[lin and Germany under Hitler believed that the freedoms they lost were ok 'in the name of security'. So how are we differnt? It is just a matter if degree and the Police ALWAYS go further than they start.

[Dotanuki]

Thank you Chris, I was not trying to cut anybody off, but as Jason said political and religious conversations have a way of getting nasty fast.
Do we as a forum really want to argue about such topics here?
Will any such arguement change anybodies mind?
Will those arguements create animosities that spill over to other more appropiate topics on this forum?

There is too much division in this country right now, even the media divides us into red states and blue states, when we should all be red, white and blue states.

I was not trying not to sensor[I abhor sensorship], but rather trying to preserve a friendly atmosphere that we currently have. After this post I will say no more on this subject, that will be up to Jason. [And to the other members on the forum, as he said this forum belong to us]

[69NINJA]

this is a clipping from my local paper a few weeks ago ( The Grand Rapids Press, GR. michigan )

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q10/dragonsbrew717/bigbrother.jpg

i'm not taking sides on this one because theres no way around the fact that as technology evolves, personal privacy becomes threatened.

everyone wants the newest most expensive video/cam internet phone but when its used in a way they dont agree with its " a crime against freedom"

now i do have my opinions on authority, believe me my MDOC number probably gets reviewed more than my social security number but some things we just cant control.

also this thread might be a little more tuned to a local/state/government forum, even though i cant help but putting my 3 1/2 cents in.

[Mako]

I'm not going to comment on what Americans think about their own Country because I don't live there and I believe that the old adage "Home is where the heart is" applies Worldwide,no matter where 'home' may be.
I'll just leave you guys with a quote to ponder on and maybe discuss if you wish to...

"Those who will have you believing absurdities will have you committing atrocities"..... Voltaire

Think about it...;)

[goose710]

Dear Forum Members
I find this thread amusing. not subject, i find that serious . consider, if any subject is "intelligently " discused there can be no feelings of anamosity,(excuse my spelling) an intelligent debator will recognize an idividuals "right" to a differing opinion, and curtiously object to and rebutt it. Nowhere is there room for an intelligent debator becoming abusive or belittling. i will not wade into the fray , but will read on as i feel an open discussion is an American RIGHT no matter what the subject be.
As my folks came through ww2 to American in 1951, i've been instilled with this countrys strenths/weaknesses and our right to express our thoughts about them . been all around de world, dis de best place to live on earth. agree / disagree a matter of opinion no more no less
goose710

[Dotanuki]

Goose,
Well, I will have to agree with your statement, this is an "open" forum.
You are right on all counts.
I hope no one misunderstood my intent, I was trying to maintain a friendly atmosphere. Opposing views on politics and religion seldom stay "friendly" even though as rational human beings debating a topic they should be.
Chris, you were right, this is an open forum, please feel free to continue any debate/discussion.

[Mako]

Goose,
Well, I will have to agree with your statement, this is an "open" forum.
You are right on all counts.
I hope no one misunderstood my intent, I was trying to maintain a friendly atmosphere. Opposing views on politics and religion seldom stay "friendly" even though as rational human beings debating a topic they should be.
Chris, you were right, this is an open forum, please feel free to continue any debate/discussion.
Which links up nicely to my second quote by Voltaire.;)

I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

[RedZorak]

I completely understand why people get angry at the government when these things happen. Sure, America is a great place. I can wake up everyday with a fair chance of encountering any bombs, and I will probably be able to eat. I love this country, and I am proud to be an American. But when the government starts taking away your freedom for security, it is okay... but only to a point. When the USSR first started it wasn't so bad, but the government started to take away freedom a little at a time. I don't want that to happen here, and we need to fight to make sure of it, because without freedom this isn't America. So what I'm saying isn't that I hate my country, but that I want to preserve it (heck, I listen to people butcher my language everyday, I want to at least have my country:)). A government should fear its people, not vice versa, right?

[bobO]

I my not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.Who ever said that got it right.

[Ben]

That new X-Ray think is not right. They need to install blurs for people's nether regions. Usually I'm not to sensitive about what it takes to stop terrorists from successfully carrying out an attack, but that is plain unethical.

There are so many things wrong with our government right now. Do you know why? Because it has become a clearly seperate entity from the people. It used to be a government led by normal people. Now it is led by the greedy upperclass, blind-liberalists, and legalized phsychos.

I know this sounds crazy but I believe there will be a civil war in the US to renew the government. It my not be for another few hundred years, but it will be neccessary if we the people don't keep the government in check. People who don't want to get involved with political issues make me sick. That just gives the upper-class greed-monkeys complete freedom.~X( The people who don't want to get involved think they can just leave well enough alone and all with be fine in the morning. I say screw that, stay on top of those people in power and make yourself heard!:dwarf:

Ahh, that political rant felt good.

[Dotanuki]

Ben said,
People who don't want to get involved with political issues make me sick. That just gives the upper-class greed-monkeys complete freedom.~X( The people who don't want to get involved think they can just leave well enough alone and all with be fine in the morning. I say screw that, stay on top of those people in power and make yourself heard!:dwarf:


Ben,
The people that make me sick are the ones who go on long political tirades and rants, and then do not vote.
If you feel strongly on political issues, vote!! become active in politics. Don't just rant!! Nowhere yet, have I heard anyone yet, on this thread, do anything but complain.
What did you do today to change the world!!
[Uhh, I ranted on a "Sword" forum about politics]
Now the next thing I am going to hear is;
My vote don't really count.
The government controls the elections.
The dog ate my shoelaces, I couldn't walk to the voting booth.

If every registered voter [both parties] went out tommorrow to their election board, and changed their political affiliation to "Independent" what do you think would happen? That would scare the politicians more than any political rant on the Internet!!

Maybe the people who don't get involved with political issues are happy with their lot in life. Isn't that also their right as an American citizen??

Both myself and my wife have voted in every election, both of us have been politically active trying to change the world for the better. Our voices have been heard in community centers and union halls. Sometimes one voice does make a difference, but our voice was heard in the appropiate setting, where it counted!! All too often I have seen those that ranted the loudest, will sit and be quiet when their words are needed the most. A Internet forum is wonderful for one's courage, much like liquor.

I know I said I would speak no more on this subject, well, I lied.

[bobO]

Hey, I didn't complain,what I did do was state what I think is one of the underlaying principles of democracy.Also at 17 years old,1972 I joined the navy,before I was 18 I was doing boomer patrols in the north Atlantic.That's putting your money where your mouth is!Do I vote ,nope never have I'm not proud of that it's just the sad truth.But as donatuki Say's I also don't **** and moan about my government.I figure these people are wiser then me.I just hope I'm right about that.

[Jason Moore]

Maybe the people who don't get involved with political issues are happy with their lot in life. Isn't that also their right as an American citizen??

Thats how I feel...

[Ben]

Dotanuki I am proud to vote whenever I get the opportunity. And I will never understand how people can be uninterested in what is going on with their government. No people don't have to care, but how can they not? The people in the government are PEOPLE! They make mistakes and its up to a society as a whole to keep the government on the right track.

Its when poeple stop bitching about their government that it gets to do whatever it wants. It is never perfect and there is always something to improve, something that needs to be done.

[ranger97]

can't we all just get along :(

[sumo]

can't we all just get along :(
no

[bobO]

Absolutely,but this is a productive dialog,because I can't but help but agree with ben,even though all I want from my gov is to be left alone, maybe I should take a more active role in civic affairs.(shudders) I do belong to the NRA does that count?>:D<

[jwilliams]

Voltaire may have said it first but Patrick Henry said "I may not agree with a word you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." In this age of "Political Correctness" many have lost the ability to listen to and appreciate opposing viewpoints. If we stand by while others are censored and we allow it because we don't like what they are saying, it won't be long until the political winds shift and what you want to say is also censored. It is only by hearing all sides can informed decisions be made. We may attack the ideas but we should respect the individual. Since this is primarily a sword forum and most of the popular swords are Japanese I like to think that we are trying to learn or apply some of the principles of Bushido (which I am just now learning about in that system) and some of them are Jin, Gi, Rei, Chi and Shin which I think apply here. As far as getting involved, I think we should all do what we can, it has been said that all evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

[bobO]

Bravo J,That,s what I was trying to say .man I've got to learn to type.But I could not agree more. I think at this point in the discussion we should thank our mods for not shutting down this thread, thanks guys.You see know one threatened anyone no one is going to blow up the forum and everyone has food for thought.What Mr.Williams said should be an outline for us all in these type of discussions.Made my day.I think I've found my sword forum!

[Certified]

That new X-Ray think is not right. They need to install blurs for people's nether regions. Usually I'm not to sensitive about what it takes to stop terrorists from successfully carrying out an attack, but that is plain unethical.

There are so many things wrong with our government right now. Do you know why? Because it has become a clearly seperate entity from the people. It used to be a government led by normal people. Now it is led by the greedy upperclass, blind-liberalists, and legalized phsychos.

I know this sounds crazy but I believe there will be a civil war in the US to renew the government. It my not be for another few hundred years, but it will be neccessary if we the people don't keep the government in check. People who don't want to get involved with political issues make me sick. That just gives the upper-class greed-monkeys complete freedom. The people who don't want to get involved think they can just leave well enough alone and all with be fine in the morning. I say screw that, stay on top of those people in power and make yourself heard!

Ahh, that political rant felt good.


Well said Ben.

America is the best government going but needs to be watched as it appears to be on a slippery slope.

When it tries to ban weapons and it has banned some, then watch out, for when a countriy`s government won`t allow the people to bear arms it has subjects. Whereas the Government that allows the people to be armed has citizens.

[joelybob]

For the record, I just want yall to know that i am a liscensed security gaurd for the state of Texas, and where did you say those machines are again???????? Ha ha, no seriously where are they? On a real note, i try to be as proffesional as possible, hahahahahahahahahahaha.=))=))=))=))

[bobO]

=))=))=)):cry:

[rick]

our goverment forgot they serve us!!!and its our fault for electing morons not fit to govern them selves let alone a nation.our fore fathers would slap us all for pissing away our freedom for a false sence of secrity

[jwilliams]

Rick, you are absolutely right. Welcome to the forum by the way.

[rick]

thy say unto me madman , I say unto thee fool.
madman I may be but am no ones fool....people need to open their eyes all the gun control laws won't help. Make guns illegal than only criminals will have guns.

[bobO]

Read in a new York paper;A guy reports for jury duty,he has a cane.Goes thru security it's a sword cane.He tells them to keep it,they say we will,were gonna keep you too.The problem is not weapons,it's dumb a**s with weapons.

[rick]

the problem is not enough good people have weapon.just crimanals and morons. weapons laws only enable people who don't care about the law to know those who do are unarmmed.thus making it easier to commit violent crimes against innocent peopleX(

[rick]

p.m. me call names if you must.Some one has to be the d**k,yet again it's me.so grow up kiddies and listen.....the collage in virginia....the mall in nebraska......the church colrado......if at any one of these events some one else had a weapon the causalty rate would never got so high.....like I said e-hate-mail if you must,Our least exeirsized and most threatend right is to keep and bare arms it is the second amendment some one though it was important.....if crimanals knew people where armed we would have less crime.
I went to a gang banger high school around the time of collinbine and never worried about an incedent like that cause it would work. to many people in my class had guns **********not to condon kids carrying guns********
but most states allow private citazens to get consealed weapon permits,yet people don't.and have the gull to complain about not feeling safe.the goverment's job is to keep other countrys at bay and it is our to keep crimeanals at bay in short we have the right so use it!!!!!!!

[Yaso]

p.m. me call names if you must.Some one has to be the d**k,yet again it's me.so grow up kiddies and listen.....the collage in virginia....the mall in nebraska......the church colrado......if at any one of these events some one else had a weapon the casalty rate would never got so high.....like I said e-hate-mail if you must,Our least exeirsized and most threatend right is to keep and bare arms it is the second amendment some one though it was important.....if crimanals knew people where armed we would have less crime.
I went to a gang banger high school around the time of collinbine and never worried about an incedent like that cause it would work. to many people in my class had guns **********not to condon kids carrying guns********
but most states allow private citazens to get consealed weapon permits,yet people don't.and have the gull to complain about not feeling safe.the goverment's job is to keep other countrys at bay and it is our to keep crimeanals at bay in short we have the right so use it!!!!!!!

I agree with a lot of this, but...
http://www.maj.com/gallery/DarkRonin03/Random/dictionary.jpg

They say a picture is worth a thousand words.

[rick]

that was harsh

[rick]

here it is

[tsafa]

My take is that I would like to be looking at that x-ray machine as the stewardess' go through ;)

I do a good deal of flying, when I get on a plane I want to make sure its safe. A plane is one place you can't get off at 35,000 feet and you can't survive if it goes down. You really have no control once in the air. Given that you have no control you have to depend on the precautions of others. Airports and planes is where I draw the line though.

On the issue of Gun control I have to say that this country went to war to protect that right. The first shot at Lexington was fired when British troops went to seize arms being held there.

To understand the "right to bear arms", you have to read further back to the Declaration of Independence. There the founding fathers agreed that if a government becomes oppressive the people have a right to remove it from power. Guns in the hands of civilians insure that right. You might say how can people with guns fight a Government backed by the military. If 90% of the population is will to die fighting, that Government and its military has no chance regardless of tanks and fighter planes. The right to bear arms is not to protect you from your neighbor, it is to keep the government in line and afraid of you.

At present I do believe that the US Government is the finest and least corrupt in the world. But 100, 200, 300... years from now things can change. This government is roughly 220 years old from the signing of the constitution. Consider that Rome was a republic for nearly 500 years and then within the generation of Julius Ceaser the republic crumbled. I believe it was illegal for citizens to carry weapons inside the city at the time.

[bobO]

Tsafa,you sir hit the nail on the head.You know you have trouble when the gov wants you unarmed and ignorant.