Things of Beauty

[illmade2]

The plain simple beauty of western swords is often overlooked and overshadowed in the light of eastern swords, so I will in my own small way do my best to shed a little light on these over looked beauties.

First while these are modern swords made by modern makers the truth is that pattern welded steel goes back to the earliest days of iron work in Europe. Smelting in those early days produced only small amounts of the then precious metal. These small bits were worked together to make billets large enough to produce a sword, the patterns left in the early steel was secondary but not long over looked by the smiths and pattern welded steel was the result.
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e202/illmade2/patternwlded10.jpg
by Jake Powning http://www.powning.com/jake/home/j_homepg.shtml

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e202/illmade2/32-Viking-Sword.jpg
By Vince Evans http://www.arscives.com/vevans/viking.htm

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e202/illmade2/BrugHildimage.jpg
By Mad Dwarf Workshop http://www.maddwarfworkshop.com/

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e202/illmade2/DSC08359-medium.jpg
By John Lundemo http://www.odinblades.com/Pages/Odinpage2.html


While as I said these are modern swords they do not differ greatly from their historical ancestors http://www.nikhef.nl/~tonvr/keris/keris2/patterns/serpent.html (http://www.nikhef.nl/%7Etonvr/keris/keris2/patterns/serpent.html)

[illmade2]

a much later but no less beautiful addition to the western sword was the basket hilt..
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e202/illmade2/baskethilt.jpg
by E.B. Erikson http://eljay.myarmoury.com/

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e202/illmade2/pines1close.jpg
by Highland Hilts http://www.highlandhilts.com/index.html

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e202/illmade2/shilts.jpg
http://swordforum.com/fall99/pat-on-chair2.jpg

Historical examples

[the blade master]

yaay illmades found my chiavona broad sword 5&7 pic down the ones with the cats head pommel=D>=D>about time too
nice set of pics there

[bobO]

I actually think there is more beauty in these swords then your average katana. I just don't know how to use them. Although I'm pretty sure the pointy end goes in the other guy.

[illmade2]

Yes bobO the pointy end goes in and the basket, guard or pommel goes up along side the head....

[illmade2]

Then you have swords of antiquity...
All of the following are by Templ http://www.templ.net/english/weapons-antiquity_and_early_middle_age.php
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e202/illmade2/ring.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e202/illmade2/glad1.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e202/illmade2/celt1.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e202/illmade2/ring2.jpg


Just a bit of a historical note here, iron swords in Europe date back to aprx the 8th century BC, the Celtic people aprx 500BC began making swords that were very different from the traditional shape and construction from the Bronze Age and early Iron Age swords. Bronze swords first appeared around the 17th century BC and were used well into the Iron Age. So considering that even today sword making continues in Europe that would make (not taking copper into it) aprx. a 3600yr tradition of sword making.....not too shabby huh? I guess we barbarians did something right.

[illmade2]

Bronze swords in the British Museum, still sharp.
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e202/illmade2/bronze.jpghttp://www.myarmoury.com/talk/download.php?id=5647

[goose710]

Illmade
Fine presentation my friend! rep be upon thee sir!
The european swords are some times just forgotten!?
They where as shown by you every bit as beautiful as anything that came out of Japan.
You've done quiet a bit of research there sir!
da gooseman
PS- what are them rings in last picture?? Bronze swords picture
I have an idea but will keep it to myself for now
anyone??

[zentredi]

great post , that is a beautiful bunch of swords

[the blade master]

im not sure goose but could they be what they call torks or some such
a type of neck ornament then again wernt they open ended? could be some sort of ornamentation
for the upper arm like a bracelet for the wrist

[goose710]

Mick
They look like a cloak fastening device used with a (for lack of a better word) hat pin i believe i've seen them among the Norsemen's stuff, only more ornately decorated.
please correct me
da gooseman

[illmade2]

they could be that, but I believe they were arm torcs worn around the upper arm. like BM said.

and thanks for the rep Goose..

[the blade master]

you know goose now youve said that i belive its one or the other? but im still leaning towards arm torks

[Mako]

They're bronze armlets, open ended ones are known as torque (one size fits all) like Mick said. ;)

[andysoard]

I really like those basket handled swords. Nice pics by the way =D>

[bobO]

Yes bobO the pointy end goes in and the basket, guard or pommel goes up along side the head....
How do you like that, guess I knew how to use them after all. In the belly and up side the head, I can do that.:duel: Great posts thanks.

[Torawashi]

Illmade; a truly beautiful presentation. I have not seen any of the swords you present here. Of course today they are works of art, but back in their time they would have been deadly weapons, as you know. I'm sending you rep for a grrrrrreat presentation. Way to go buddy.

[Torawashi]

How do you like that, guess I knew how to use them after all. In the belly and up side the head, I can do that.:duel: Great posts thanks.

....you've been practicing again.....remember, attitude is 60%! :)

[zentredi]

Of course today they are works of art, but back in their time they would have been deadly weapons, as you know.they would have been considered works of art back then as well as deadly weapons i think.

[bobO]

they would have been considered works of art back then as well as deadly weapons i think.
I've wondered about this, was a sword looked at more as tool back then or a work of art or both? Tora, one thing I got is attitude.:>

[illmade2]

Mostly it was looked on as a status symbol and weapon, a symbol of wealth, power, and prowess on the battle field. They were works of art and the ultimate phallic symbol of their day, they also carried a mystical power, the power of life and death, the power of creation and destruction. That's still why they hold such awe today, in 500 yrs a corvette (insert favorite power toy here) will just be a outmoded means of transportation but a sword will still be a symbol:ranting:


well except for the Romans to them it was just a sword....

[Torawashi]

Mostly it was looked on as a status symbol and weapon, a symbol of wealth, power, and prowess on the battle field. They were works of art and the ultimate phallic symbol of their day, they also carried a mystical power, the power of life and death, the power of creation and destruction. That's still why they hold such awe today, in 500 yrs a corvette (insert favorite power toy here) will just be a outmoded means of transportation but a sword will still be a symbol:ranting:


well except for the Romans to them it was just a sword....

Illmade; you're absolutely correct. I have read that the people we call the "Vikings" (actually the word Viking is a verb, not a noun) used a lot of axes and clubs because not many could afford a sword and those that had swords often had them passed down from their antecedents. It was truly a respected weapon and tool of war. In the video "Reclaiming the Blade" one sword expert compares the technology of a sword in medieval times to the cutting edge technology of a stealth fighter in today's world. They were recognized as objects of beauty and highly prized as weapons and symbols of power and standing in society.

Also, as our British brethren here probably know, in many Medieval societies an ordinary citizen was not permitted to carry or own a sword, only men at arms and those nobly born were permitted that privilege.

I would differ with you in just one area. actually some Roman gladii have been found that were highly decorated....you can see line drawings of some in Oakeshott's book "the Archaeology of Weapons". One example has a grip covered in thin silver strips and the pommel and boss (guard) are decorated with brass or bronze studs. Just like my Ritter Steel Roman Gladius. This demonstrates an interest in the sword as a status symbol and not just a tool. The difference being that ancient Roman society was so well policed and sophisticated that the ordinary citizen did not carry a sword. Only the military was armed with swords. the Roman citizen, if they carried any weapon at all, it was usually a dagger. As an aside, only a Roman citizen could join the Roman army or Navy and a letter of introduction was required as proof for the recruit, usually from the father.

Bobo; that's the way to be, brudda......gots to have attitude B-)

Below is my Ritter Steel Roman gladius, it has the Pompeii pattern blade and is similar to one excavated at the Pompeii archaeological dig.


http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/jimnpatsy/AquilaBumpGreenCard.jpg

Below is my Hanwei Roman gladius; its blade is very similar to the Gladius Hispaniensis which the Roman gladius was patterned after. The hilt is that of a standard (not fancy) gladius with wood pommel and boss and sculpted bone handle.


http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/jimnpatsy/pix021yo6.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/jimnpatsy/images_PC2032_2_l.jpg

[the blade master]

tora my friend i could be wrong but that last roman sword pic im sure was called a spatha it was only the shorter swords that were called a gladius im not nit picking just saying as ive read it
mick

[illmade2]

Tora I did not mean that the Romans did not look on the sword as a status symbol (ie. the better and fancier the sword=the richer more powerful the man) what I meant was over all the Romans did not mystify the sword as other cultures did. This was probably due to the fact that in the early republic every male citizen was require to do time in the army and therefore every one had at one point in thier life access to a sword..making them more of a tool and less of a object of awe.

[Torawashi]

tora my friend i could be wrong but that last roman sword pic im sure was called a spatha it was only the shorter swords that were called a gladius im not nit picking just saying as ive read it
mick

Mick; you are correct in saying that a spatha was a longer sword, used by legionaries in the late Roman empire, however the Hanwei gladius that i pictured above is a gladius. The slender blade is in the style of the Gladius Hispaniensis which was the Spanish sword the Romans patterned their gladius after but the length is the same as a standard gladius. Perhaps it's the slender blade that makes it appear to be longer. also the spatha had a different type of hilt.

Illmade; you are spot on my friend. looks like you've done your homework!


Some examples of a Roman spatha:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/jimnpatsy/223px-Spatha_end_of_second_century_.jpg


http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/jimnpatsy/img25.jpg

This will help to illustrate the difference in Roman Blades. The spatha was longer than all of them.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/jimnpatsy/gla18.jpg


Here is an example of an Hispaniensis (Spanish) Blade:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/jimnpatsy/MainzBlade.jpg

[illmade2]

My Girls spatha is in the center
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e202/illmade2/LD.jpg

[Torawashi]

Very nice!! the one on the right looks like it could be an officer's sword.

[illmade2]

The one with the Brass hilt is a replica french artillery sword I purchased for her (which I am sure you know) it was a common pattern used up through the civil war in America..The French had a thing for the classical period.
The one with the bone hilt was a ebay special that had a surprisingly good blade but awful furniture and a scabbard that was crap...so I replaced the grip and pommel with bone and made a new scabbard for it. It was the second sword I gave her. She asked me what it was. I told her it was a Fantasy Gladius...

[the blade master]

jim illmade those gladii and spatha's you have are really somthing
i bought a gladius (paul chen)carbon styeel blade waisted pattern
bone handle wood butcap and bolster satin finish on blade
scabard was the usual piece of crap its been sold on then the funds went towards buying a decent katana ah well just have to get another my retailer has some but there just the cheap an nasty one's crap wall hanger's
mick
ps jim just had a look at the second pic down my gladius was the same as yours

[Taygrd]

Those are really good looking swords. I always wanted to get one then I sit there and say "No I can build it myself" and don't order it. So I end up without a sword since I have not been able to work in the shop=)). Once I was able to handle a spatha made by Vince Evans, now that was a thing of beauty as well. Still got to make(or buy) me one=))