Custom Katana

[RobbyDoom]

So the question is; would you pay $300 for a custom sword w/ custom made koshirae?

Basic Specs:

Blade: Differentially Hardened 1095 Carbon Steel no hi w/ real hamon
Tsuka: Full samegawa wrap w/ high quality ito (that of the hanwei cotton, which I have worked with and highly recommend for budget ito) and wonderful tsuka-maki work
Fuchigashira: Metal alloy
Tsuba: Metal alloy
Saya: Designed saya eg. patterned colors etc w/ cotton Kakucho sageo ito
Comes w/ sword bag and display box

Additional spec added
Changes made to ito

NOTE:
Just incase there has been a misunderstanding.
I'm not offering a "your choice of" custom. This will be a custom, mounted by me and my own designs.

[zentredi]

would have to see it or at least pics first..

[DragonGuardian]

I agree with Zentredi, I'd have to at least see pics first to make any call.

[RobbyDoom]

This is sort of a "focus group" if you will, to get wants and unwants, opinions etc.

[Maynar]

Would the hi be optional? What blade geometry is offered? How custom can the hamon be? What metallic options are available for koshirae alloys?

Just a few questions off the top of my head.

[RobbyDoom]

Just incase there has been a misunderstanding.
I'm not offering a "your choice of" custom. This will be a custom, mounted by me and my own designs.

[Maynar]

Oh, I see. I assumed this was a hypothetical exercise. Those were questions I would pose to someone creating a sword from the ground up, in theory only. Forgive my lack of understanding, Robby.

Hope all works out well with your endeavor, sir. :)

[RobbyDoom]

Oh, I see. I assumed this was a hypothetical exercise. Those were questions I would pose to someone creating a sword from the ground up, in theory only. Forgive my lack of understanding, Robby.

Hope all works out well with your endeavor, sir. :)
Well it is sort of hypothetical. I wanted input for swords that I will be mounting, then selling.

[John Smith]

Is the Katana hand forged by a US based bladesmith? Cause that sounds to cheap to be a decent blade of any type. I would pay $300 for the Tsuka, and Tsukamaki and $300 more for the Koshiare And Fuchi. As a swordsmith myself I would think doing custom work on a hand forged blade for only $300 is a tad to cheap I would say $1300 would be a fair price for your work and such.

[RobbyDoom]

Is the Katana hand forged by a US based bladesmith? Cause that sounds to cheap to be a decent blade of any type. I would pay $300 for the Tsuka, and Tsukamaki and $300 more for the Koshiare And Fuchi. As a swordsmith myself I would think doing custom work on a hand forged blade for only $300 is a tad to cheap I would say $1300 would be a fair price for your work and such.
Well, it would be custom from china. I don't nearly have the funds to start a project like this by a US, or well known smith.
I put my quotes in and came to a final cost per piece that I found to be reasonable for the average sword buyer. I have this thread going at SBG as well. The outcome there has been a large focus on the blade. My latest quote on the blades brings the final cost to sell just under $500. That's with hand forged 1095 high carbon steel blade, with clay tempered, no bohi, real yokote and mounted by me.

If I wanted to mount a blade to sell w/ all solid top quality fittings, I would commision you to do the blade John :)........Although, that does sound like a great idea....hmmmm...perhaps we have something here...lol.

The reason I'm not going with a US smith is, right now, I'm a nobody in the mounting business. Know what I mean? For me to be cocky and put out, say a blade by you and mounted by me, then to sell for 1300, wouldn't go to well. I think people would sooner just buy the blade from you and get it mounted by Lohman, or Skip, or Aaron.

Man I hope all of that made sense. I exhausted from this day of cleaning house, making dinner, keeping the dog happy and researching cost and crunching numbers on the project.

[HeadCheese]

Robby, so you can get a feel for some of the potential pitfalls behind your consideration of getting into the business of offering turnkey "custom" swords, I recommend you visit the SBG forum and search the term "Kokoro Ichi"

Excitement has turned to ill-will among several of the forum members there over the situation. I'm glad I went with the SOM Custom, instead...

[RobbyDoom]

Robby, so you can get a feel for some of the potential pitfalls behind your consideration of getting into the business of offering turnkey "custom" swords, I recommend you visit the SBG forum and search the term "Kokoro Ichi"

Excitement has turned to ill-will among several of the forum members there over the situation. I'm glad I went with the SOM Custom, instead...

Well, I have the same thread going on over there, and to tell you the truth, everyone has been peachy, in telling me their input. It has been a great help and very positive. Not the same as on this side. I guess there is no interest here. Oh well. Some forums are good for some things and others aren't.
This is still my old home though :)

[Dotanuki]

Robby,

You would do well to heed HC's advice.
I know you won't though.
All you are looking for is "yes" answers, anything else is falling on deaf ears.
I suggest you read those answers more carefully at the SBG forum, because I did not get the impression they were that peachy. You are reading them through rose-colored glasses.
Those same people who are telling you "yes" there, will be the same ones to crucify you later, as HC just suggested.
We already know what you are like here, which is why you got a more honest reply (not peachy) from people who also customise their own swords in many cases.

Lets see, you customised some of your swords and one for Maynar, and now you think you are experienced enough to start your own business?? (as a matter of fact, you already did, judging from the link on bottom of your 'sig'.) So I see, it really is senseless, to offer you advice on something you have already made up your mind about.
Read my signature, I have a feeling in the future, you too will want to use it too!!!

Robby,
Six months ago, the swords you are now going to try to sell, were refered to (BY YOU!!) as chinese junk, not worthy of being displayed properly!!!
Now today, you are asking if I would buy one from you for $300 to $500???

See how your past words can come back to haunt you?????

Robby, how many swords do YOU own in the $300 to $500 range????

[Kurubushi Kamu]

I've noticed quite a few folks throwing their hats into the 'sword customising' ring lately, leaving me to think 'Where have I seen this idea before?' It was here,with the SOM sword and the Kokoro-Ichi on SBG's Forum. Now it seems every cutting group and sword store have their "own' sword in 'custom' furniture, with labour usually outsourced in China. Not that choice is a bad thing, I would be wary of entering a marketplace already saturated with swords and services, and competition that offer more traditional features, such as hishigami etc.. The sword community may not be as large as we would like it to be and is probably smaller than we think (Meaning a limited customer base). On the topic of buying swords I find as the selection grows I become picky about what I will lay down my hard earned money for, so real same, iron fittings, silk, and no-hi become priorities, as well as a well made blade with proper geometry and carbon content. The SOM sword is all that for less than $300 and sets the bar for others to follow. Not trying to pee on your campfire Robby, just calling it as I see it. Ask guys like Brian Drier (ex RoninSwords) or Mike Crampton (ShadowOfLeaves, out of business) THEIR take on the sword "industry".. my 2 cents.. KK

[bobO]

"Ask Brian" Great advice. There was a time you could call Brian, I wonder if that is still true today!

[Caliper]

I think Robby is pretty much set on this, I think I read he already ordered the two blades he wants to customize, I know Robby is a stand up guy and will do things to his best abilities, but like already mentioned, you've only been customizing for a few months, you're pretty good, different also, a welcomed breather, but you only have one person, Maynar, to vouch for your work

remember that your concept of perfection might be different to others since you've been at this for a short period compared to others, maybe you feel your tsuka-maki is flawless and ultratight, but to someone else who has handled professional wraps might see all the flaws and feel the ito loose or have a problem with the way the end knost overlaps over the kashira (which I believe it shouldn't). You seem to be more focused on the fittings and maki since it's the basic custom work you'll do over the blade and that's what you're good at, but you've already noticed that the blade is the most important thing to most, remember also that when someone pays for a 'custom' they want to get what they pay for, anything else and you will be look down upon as a scam artist or a liar

sad thing is you're offering generic alloy fittings and I think you moved to cotton ito, the people at SBG have already gotten their UBC, SBG and KI custom for around 300 with better options and great feedback, you're a relative newcomer with no feedback other than your word, and your price has already risen to over 450 and at that level, people will begin to ask for their definition of perfection

Sorry Robby, I don't want to rain on your parade too, just my opinion, I know you mean good and want to set a name for yourself in the comunity, but we're in tough economic times, I've traded emails and purchased stuff from Mr.Michael Crampton (SOL) and Mr. Brian Dreier (Roninswords), fantastic guys to do business, but just look how they are now

Mr. Dreier has had his whole live scrutinized and critized publicly over the internet at SBG, so be careful Robby, I wish you luck and don't rush things :detective:

[Jason Moore]

I do want to thank you very much for the link on your site Robby! I do not have much input for your business, but if you work hard, you will make it.

[John Smith]

I see that there is alot of customizers out there, I had no idea. I for one Utilize Brian Dreier for my Tsukamaki, and Saya work, since my main focus now is forging. But I must say this is a very enlightening thread. And I am seeing a few keynotes that I will be keeping my eye on.

And Robby if your work is outstanding then perhaps you and I can open a dialog on this subject in private. As I am always looking for folks to work with.

I will check your site out.

[RobbyDoom]

I will respond to everyone in one reply.

I'm not trying to go into business selling swords, at least not in way most of you think. I think everyone is getting the wrong idea as to what it is I want to do.
I'm not trying to compete with the guys who've made 25+ custom swords to sell e.g SOM, SBG, Ronin or the "Kokoro Ichi" project. Those are on a large scale. I simply want to take two swords, customize them and sell them and I want to stress that as much as I can. I'm going to build two swords that's it. I will put my time and patience into this. It may even take me a year to do so. I want it to be perfect.
I wasn't looking for "yes" answers, I put a maybe in there w/ comment, so I can get an understanding as to what people would look for in that price range. I assumed I'd get more maybe's with comments anyhow. Which was a big plus.
The only reason I picked $300, was because I researched before I even posted it and found that with everything I wanted to put on the sword(more quality parts than your average $300+ sword) was not going to come cheap. So, I thought, hey let's see if people are willing to pay that amount. The reason the SBG, SOM custom were a reasonable price for what you got, is because they were made on a large scale, the final price per piece comes down, because the production cost lowers with more being produced. Jason will tell you the same. Every piece I get for this sword is not at bunk price. Because of that Jason was able to get really nice blades, for a good price. The manufacturer I'm looking at commissioning to do the blae is looking at 250 a blade. Jason didn't pay that much, that's for sure.
Yes, I have only been doing remounts for 3 months, but I have learned a lot and as everything I pick up, I learn and become next to perfect doing it. I have talent with building things and crafty stuff, and that is something some people have to work hard for. It comes easy to me, so when I say I can do something, I know I can do it. It is my word people have to go with, but how does anyone get anywhere, if they don't start somewhere. Do you think Skip, or Aaron, or Lohman started of with a huge fan base and a lot people that praise their work? They started of the same way I am....the bottom. Isn't that where you started too Dotanuki? You weren't the great martial artists you are now, when you started. You worked for it. You didn't let people tell you can't do it and if they did, you showed them. That is why I'm not going to listen to anyone tell me NOT to do this project. If it goes sour, I'll know what to do next time. Learn from my mistakes. As your signature says: "Experience is simply the name we give our mistakes", well we'll chalk my first attempt at building a custom as experience.

As for the discussion on SBG it is peachy. They are telling me what they like or dislike, this is what I want. Their opinion. So far so good. They have given me much help in finding what will do me well on my final decisions for this project.

You are all right, this not an easy thing to do, but if it was easy, there would be no point in doing it. I hope I covered it all, sorry If didn't. There are a lot of replies here. I thank everyone for their replies, they all helped.


P.s I didn't say chinese junk :), replica/knock off, doesn't mean junk.

[Taygrd]

I often though about doing that myself, however I made knives and sold them for a few years then realized that I made some profit but I really did it because I liked it. I met a journeyman smith a few years ago who was selling beautiful folders decked out for $200. I asked him why they were so inexpensive, he said "my name is (insert name here) not Jerry Fisk so I cannot ask $1100 for this knife". You have a name, talent, and a good rep to sell and make a profit. I learned not to make something I love into a business, it works for some but not for me. Most of the successful knife makers I know have either retired well or their wives have good jobs.=))

[RobbyDoom]

I often though about doing that myself, however I made knives and sold them for a few years then realized that I made some profit but I really did it because I liked it. I met a journeyman smith a few years ago who was selling beautiful folders decked out for $200. I asked him why they were so inexpensive, he said "my name is (insert name here) not Jerry Fisk so I cannot ask $1100 for this knife". You have a name, talent, and a good rep to sell and make a profit. I learned not to make something I love into a business, it works for some but not for me. Most of the successful knife makers I know have either retired well or their wives have good jobs.=))


Good story Tay!!! Yeah, I'm doing this because I love to do it. I also have a lot of ideas that I would love to relinquish onto a sword's koshirae. I don't want to make a business out of it..really...just sort of a once in a while thing. Put my ideas to work, then sell them...this way I don't get the stink eye from the Mrs. She's kind of over swords...lol. If I could, I'd keep the swords.

[Torawashi]

Robby; go ahead with your dream, take it is as far as you can.....I'm sure the guys are just tryin' to make sure you know all the pros and cons so you don't get your heart broken if things don't work out. just follow my motto; "Make sure it's what you really want, then, press on"......'course things don't always work out..... my concrete canoe idea was somewhat of a failure :-O

[the blade master]

hey jim
that concrete canoe aint as daft as it sounds dose ww2 and mullberry harbour ring a bell where i belive they floated the sections across the channel to build a harbour on the coast on d.day in w.w.2 maybe
im wrong eh mako:blackeye:

[Taygrd]

Good story Tay!!! Yeah, I'm doing this because I love to do it. I also have a lot of ideas that I would love to relinquish onto a sword's koshirae. I don't want to make a business out of it..really...just sort of a once in a while thing. Put my ideas to work, then sell them...this way I don't get the stink eye from the Mrs. She's kind of over swords...lol. If I could, I'd keep the swords.
That is just my story and how I do things now. One of the main reasons I do not do outside work is I have two katanas that have been in parts on my bench for 5 months and I have not touched them. I wish you the best of luck.

[RobbyDoom]

That is just my story and how I do things now. One of the main reasons I do not do outside work is I have two katanas that have been in parts on my bench for 5 months and I have not touched them. I wish you the best of luck.
Yeah, I've had projects like that. Thanks Tay!!!
Robby; go ahead with your dream, take it is as far as you can.....I'm sure the guys are just tryin' to make sure you know all the pros and cons so you don't get your heart broken if things don't work out. just follow my motto; "Make sure it's what you really want, then, press on"......'course things don't always work out..... my concrete canoe idea was somewhat of a failure :-O
Thanks Jim. I totally understand what everyone is saying, and I have to harsh feelings at all. Input is what I'm always looking for, good bad, neutral....it's all good to me. The more info the better!

[Torawashi]

hey jim
that concrete canoe aint as daft as it sounds dose ww2 and mullberry harbour ring a bell where i belive they floated the sections across the channel to build a harbour on the coast on d.day in w.w.2 maybe
im wrong eh mako:blackeye:

Mick; yes, I know about the Mulberry harbor at Normandy, but I think they floated those parts across on the backs of Frenchmen.....that was their contribution to WWII =))

[wolfhound]

Robby, I'd just do it as a hobby, It's what I do and for the recoard i've been doing it for 5 years.

I sometimes do a custom or two on commission, but it's only ever once in a while and I do tell people that if they're supplying the blade and they don't like the end results that I don't mind doing some minor adjustment if all doesn't go according to plan but the rest is on their own backs as there's no such thing as a Koshirae practitioners course or qualification over here in the UK.

That's why I only tend to practice Koshirae and not Sword Polishing or Saya Lacquering.

[the blade master]

Mick; yes, I know about the Mulberry harbor at Normandy, but I think they floated those parts across on the backs of Frenchmen.....that was their contribution to WWII =))

funny thing that jim every fight they got into they allways got there ar++s
kicked god knows how many times we hammerd them probably exsplains
why they dont like the brits no more=))

[Torawashi]

funny thing that jim every fight they got into they allways got there ar++s
kicked god knows how many times we hammerd them probably exsplains
why they dont like the brits no more=))

Mick; they ain't too fond of us Yanks either.....or we of them for that matter. It's like the old joke; why are there so many trees along the Champs Elysee? Because the Germans like to march in the shade. =))

[the blade master]

das ist de best mein freund danke