family members with special talents.

[Nanshoji]

Anyone have a family member with a neat talent? My grandfather is a skilled knifesmith. Hes not famous or anything, but his work is amazing. he has been making knives since he was 22 or so, but he stopped before I was born. THe special steel he ordered to make his knives got to such a ridiculous price youd have to be a millionaire to buy it. He has made over 50 knives since he stared and gave a few to me. He made a short sword once, nad it is razor sharp and a beauty. I promise Im not lying. I have told other peolple this but they didnt belive me. The only ones who ever belived me were my friends cas they got to meet my grandfather and see some of his work.

[69NINJA]

nice, any chance for any pictures?

my father makes his living as a flint-knapper, he has for near 30 years. he's knapped some amazing knives, i'll see what i can do about some pics. i have a few he made.

[bobO]

GET OUT,your dad sounds like some one I would like to meet.After a life time of looking I finally found an arrow head.Cause then the old lady,who's never looked found two nice one's.I guess I'm the only one in my family with any different talents,I use to train animals.I was told by a welsh ferrier(very cool dude)that I'm a horse whisperer,Ive raised jaguars for zoos,trained dogs, helped run a raptor rescue shelter etc.Does that count.

[Taygrd]

Flint knapping is amazing. If you mess up with flint you ruin the piece, if you mess up with steel you just get a smaller knife. I imagine flint knapping takes quite a bit of practice and patience. I would like to see some pics of both the flint and granddads.

My father in law has been making knives since the 70s. Thats who got me started.

O BobO Elite Dealer of Death (aka Tiny Dancer;)) most honorable and effective raptor rescuer- you never cease to amaze me. Hey the pic of the katana with your skin flakes all over it freaked me out:-O. It is nice to see that someone else has that unusual sense of humor as well.

[Mako]

I have a granddaughter who is 5 years old and can whistle in Japanese.B-)

[bobO]

WOW,I wish I could whistle in japanese.Thanks Jason,now I'm Tiny dancer.I can see it now,and what do they call you ,who deals death at will,they call me...tiny dancer.Glad to see at my age I can still freak people out.I warned you guys I have a strange sense of humor.Oh yeah trained a cat once ,just cause my buddy's said it couldn't be done.

[Jason Moore]

Sorry Bobo, the tiny dancer thing just came out. We have a siamese cat and his name is Kato. He seems very feminine and my fiance calls him tiny dancer! (That is not what I meant when I called you that Bobo!) Just a little joke and I hoped you would take it well :)

[bobO]

No need to be sorry Jason,I had a good time with it!One thing the good Lord gave me was a good sense of humor.Must of knew I was going to need it.

[Dotanuki]

Hmmmm,..............................
bob-O,...........SwordMaster,.............Tiny Dancer? B-)
Sounds like a secret sword technique to me!;)
What a great name for a tanto, or similar sized weapon! :)
Tiny Dancer, not bob-O! =))

[bobO]

=))Dotanuki,SHHH,don't let the cat outta the bag.Does anyone know how to say tiny dancer in japanese.I also really like toe cutter,for reasons i'd rather not go into.:oops:

[Dotanuki]

Hmmmmmm,.................

I remember years ago hearing of an Iaido group practicing in the park, I quess they were on a hill, and when one of them did his chiburi, he chopped off his toes, sewed them back on from what I heard.
Just a story? Right, bob-O?:-?

[Taygrd]

Hey BobO, I hope I did not offend you with the TD comment. =( "...I tease, I tease....". I also understand that you have to earn your stripes before you can.

[bobO]

Not even close,my friend,not even close.I take these things in the spirit in which there givin.I'm not that sensitive.Take your best shot,I triple double dog dare ya.I'm part scottish ,pissin contests are what we do.

[Taygrd]

Glad to hear it. I did not want to offend you after you gave me such a warm welcome here.:)

[Mako]

Does anyone know how to say tiny dancer in japanese.
'Kinshou odoriki' is one way according to my very limited dictionary bobO.;)

[bobO]

Hmmmmmm,.................

I remember years ago hearing of an Iaido group practicing in the park, I quess they were on a hill, and when one of them did his chiburi, he chopped off his toes, sewed them back on from what I heard.
Just a story? Right, bob-O?:-?=))An urban myth,No that wasn't me,something like that,it was a close thing.Mako,thank you,that's the name of my tanto now.

[Nanshoji]

Wow, thats really neat, I wish I could whistle in Japanese. I can cus in Japanese though, lol.

[bobO]

Just a sobering thought.I do not mean to laugh at another's misfortune.Katana are designed to cut,refined for over a thousand years to cut.The soul reason for it's existence is to cut.If that steel had needs or wants ,it would be to cut.It is it's nature.IT doesn't care what it cuts ,it will try to cut anything,weather it can or not,it will give it's all ,to the death..to the CUT!So respect the blade,cause it sure as hell won't respect you.Sorry had to say that.=P:ninjabattle:

[Mako]

Just a sobering thought.I do not mean to laugh at another's misfortune.Katana are designed to cut,refined for over a thousand years to cut.The soul reason for it's existence is to cut.If that steel had needs or wants ,it would be to cut.It is it's nature.IT doesn't care what it cuts ,it will try to cut anything,weather it can or not,it will give it's all ,to the death..to the CUT!So respect the blade,cause it sure as hell won't respect you.Sorry had to say that.=P:ninjabattle:
I knew it...I just knew it somehow.:)]

bobO is the real Trip Fisk.

"Swords will %$^*&!* cut you wide open".>:)

[Dotanuki]

Well,..................:-?

I can see how when after you lobbed off your own toes, your new knickname would be Trip.:cry:

But didn't the real Trip lose his eye, after hitting a an SS katana on a table, having the tip break off an shoot into his eye? ;) <this smiley has a sword tip stuck in his eye!:oops:

Hmmmm, now I know why bob-O was so upset when Jason called him 'Tiny Dancer', all those ballerina lessons went to waste.:-< You know they dance on their toes.:>

[bobO]

=))LMAO,Ganging up on me,HUH.All I can say is ,I can neither confirm nor deny any and all allegations made against me.And my new yorker reply would be,I don't no nuttin,I didn't see nuttin,I didn't hear nuttin,I wasn't there,and if you can prove I was der,I was sleeping.:>

[Nanshoji]

Lol, thats funny.

Hey 69Ninja, if you can tell me how to put pics on here or if my mom can show me,(shes good with this kinda stuff), I'll get some pics on here.

[69NINJA]

sent you a P.M. nanshoji

[Nanshoji]

Im working on those pics, sorry for the hold up.

[mancosbob]

...I was told by a welsh ferrier (very cool dude) that I'm a horse whisperer...

Somewhere along the Shoshone River, just west of Cody WY, I had pulled of the road for a rest. It had been a long solo drive from Cortez CO, and I wanted a siesta. I ignored all the area closed signs, and the fort knox reinforced steel style trash dumpsters, parked my 4X4 out of sight of the highway and hiked down towards the riverbank. This was about three days, maybe 4, after the last L.A. riots ended; since I was trapped downtown at work for a few days defending the business, I needed a vacation and headed up to the high lonesome.

As I passed through the trees, heading slightly downhill, this magnificent view of the wild river flowing towards the Yellowstone halted my progress. Sure, I knew real rivers were not concrete lined creeks until they filled from rain, but seeing my first big river in many years, was mesmerizing; I sat down against a tree and just enjoyed the perfect day and the breathtaking scenery.

I was watching some ducks down by the shore when I heard something coming my way. It sounded like a bull crunching its way through the underbrush; obviously, not concerned a bit about being heard. My mind instantly remembered the little black bear profiles, drawn on those combination tank trap dumpsters. I thought, its a good day to die, and prepared to sing my death song; when the whole world turned brown. I was sitting there, legs outstretched, back against the tree trunk, totally motionless; completly at ease and empty minded, doing my best invisible man impersonation.

The massive hairy brown mountain passed so close that it stepped over my legs, which I had willed to look like tree roots (hey it worked okay!) to whatever was coming. I knew my luck was about to run out, the air had been almost calm, just some slight movement, but that gentle breeze and the hair giant were about to merge, she was headed towards the river bank in a SW direction (I was facing due south). I saw it the instant she stepped into my scent. I don't know how something as big as a moose can jump and pivot like a cat or a ninja, but she did just that. She had the most terrified eyes I have ever seen in my life, I never knew animals had expressions like that, but she was scared out of her wits; or maybe I could just see her spirit...I do not know how I knew, I just knew it.

My eyes were locked on hers, and she snorted. I began to calmly speek to her. I mentioned that I knew this was her home, that I was enjoying the beauty of her world, and not to worry about me, that I was not any sort of threat; but she was not really buying it. Just then the moose chips hit the fan. It became painfully clear why my lady moose friend was so frightened. There was some movement off to my left and as I slowly turned, her calf nearly walked into me; we were now face to face (o shizer). I also learned that a scared baby moose makes a bleating sound like sheep; to hell with Wild Kingdom.

Now I had to act fast, cause mama was about to charge my postion in full 'divine wind' fashion; without any hesitation, I said, "Baby, run to mama!"

And guess what? It did! It did run to mama! I said, "GOOD BABY!"

The mama moose shoved junior through the thicket at her back, then returned her attantions to me. I had still not moved anything but my head at this point. She turned sideways, never breaking eye contact with me and crouched down. Then in another ninja move, she vaulted this 6' thicket without disturbing a single leaf. When she landed I could still see her eyes, still scared, but not quite as much; I think she was starting to kick herself for not being more careful. In another blink, both were headed off at a trot in a westerly direction, which was just fine with me.

Yes, I had something with me (a 3" 29), but never felt the need to use it, or even considered more than using it as noise maker if I had to move behind my tree to evade injury; I mean, I was tresspassing on her turf. My own code I guess.

I do not know what you would call what I did, but all the "hunters" that I knew either blew me off or said I should have been dead; my best freinds knew I was telling the truth and we spoke of this a few times. I do not remember the last time I told this story to anyone, but probably not since 9/11.

Does that count?

[bobO]

DAMN RIGHT!,=D> Great story, I laughed, I cried(from laughing).. Dude, you been hanging out with USN, SEAL's? Who taught you that stuff? I got tons of those story's. One like that with a dear and a fawn, a couple with bears, bunch's of them with horses and varies farm critters(damn llama's). A couple with jaguars. Showed some good old boy's how to creep up on a deer. Stuff like that, but that was just a great story, and well told. Reminded me of a Chinese story about a monk and tigers, but just reached my typing limit .:writing:

[mancosbob]

...Dude, you been hanging out with USN, SEAL's? Who taught you that stuff?

Who taught me? My old buddy Ron, whom I mentioned before...=(

Of course, that is only a partial truth, sure Ron shared some of his Special Forces learned killer schnitzel with me, but part of that is also a gift. I'm not blowing my own horn mind you; I know full well where those gifts come from, and I am here to tell you that the giver of those gifts is a pretty cool entity. I owe him much you see, he always has my back, he has always been there when nobody else would come, he stood with me when I was friendless and alone, he robbed my enemies of their intended destruction of my life, in fact, he prepared a banquet for me in their presence; nobody can make little p!$$ ant civil servants as mad as He can, thank you Father, may I have another.

Yeah, I'm devoted to Him, and no, that is not a conflict with my being here. I would not do to our enemies what they would do, or have done to us (unless lead to by a very high power), but I will not deny Him thrice either. If called upon to act, I am specifically forbidden to consider what to do before hand. As in the story of the moose above, the proper course of action will become clearly evident when it is needed, as well as any dialog that will be beneficial to the moment. I guess you could say that this is a Christian form of Budo, but if you really study the Words that were left us, you will find that is closer to the real truth than being a pew potato ever was...

Man, guess I'm gonna hear about this one, hunh? :paladin:

[bobO]

Damn:-<If you don't have a sword ,sell your cloak and buy one. People think to be spirtual you have to be a wuss. Nothing could be further from the truth. Yes your supposed to turn the other cheek, but you only have two, and sometimes you have to stand(like a mountain). And yes,as far as I'm concerned there is a spirit that guides us, but here's the thing, you have a choice. So will you stand in the light, or will you stand in the dark. Cause as far as I'm concerned where in a battle! Man, don't get me going!:flaming:

[Dotanuki]

Animal Empathy

This is the ability to feel what an animal feels, people that are in touch with their inner animal have this ability.
I believe that society, since our birth tries to eradicate our natural animal instincts, to force us into a robot like existence.
Actually, I don't believe we actually learn fighting skills, I believe we just remember our natural instincts [on higher levels].
Animals can feel fear, and can sense intent to do them harm, if you are one with nature, they will probably treat you like any other living thing around them, depending on mood. They most likely will ignore you, unless hungry or in a bad mood, just like us.
My brother-in-law died of cancer a few years back, he was an avid hunter.
At the end he went to his hunting cabin on the top of the mountain [W. Va.] to enjoy the beauty of nature before he died. The deers came up to him at the cabin and were eating out of his hand [animals have empathy too].
I laughed at him, told him 'last year you would be shooting and eating them, and this year they're saying goodbye to you'
Such is nature, such is life.

[jwilliams]

Animal Empathy

This is the ability to feel what an animal feels, people that are in touch with their inner animal have this ability.
I believe that society, since our birth tries to eradicate our natural animal instincts, to force us into a robot like existence.
Actually, I don't believe we actually learn fighting skills, I believe we just remember our natural instincts [on higher levels].
Animals can feel fear, and can sense intent to do them harm, if you are one with nature, they will probably treat you like any other living thing around them, depending on mood. They most likely will ignore you, unless hungry or in a bad mood, just like us.
My brother-in-law died of cancer a few years back, he was an avid hunter.
At the end he went to his hunting cabin on the top of the mountain [W. Va.] to enjoy the beauty of nature before he died. The deers came up to him at the cabin and were eating out of his hand [animals have empathy too].
I laughed at him, told him 'last year you would be shooting and eating them, and this year they're saying goodbye to you'
Such is nature, such is life.

I think there is a difference in being an avid hunter and an avid killer of animals, just as there is a difference between being a warrior and a murderer. I don't think budo is opposed to Christian belief. I actually believe it is a tenet of it. I agree that if we were in tune with that spirit and submissive to it, we would always react correctly to any situation. Training, physical and mental, allow us to reach that point, what is known as "enlightenment/no mind". Because our modern world is trying to deny through political correctness that we have the right and responsibility to respond to evil and eradicate it.

[mancosbob]

...Yes your supposed to turn the other cheek, but you only have two...

Ahhh, one of the most misunderstood verses in the entire book; this actually only applies to when you are struck, either physically or spiritually, by having your testimony rejected by a fellow believer. You see, many believe in error as the end gets closer; 5 out of the 7 churchs in TBo Revelation are in trouble doctrine wise when Christ returns. That verse is addressed to that one issue alone, not some bully smacking you or giving you some grief. Christians are not to be second class citizens, if we get popped, we need to act right up; which is not what we have been taught by the mainstream community. We are to obey civil authorities as long as they do not trangress the the law as taught in the book.

Also, Christ never intended to organize any super churchs; like Budo, Christianity was always supposed to be a life style as opposed to a religion. It embraced the Pentetuch (Torah), the prophets, and the new teachings. The only "ritual" that ended on Golgotha was that of animal sacrifice; Christ became the sacrifice once and forever. Christ told his students to be armed when he was not with them, as bobO noted above; the Lord knew we would be put in danger by our testimony (swords were the .45ACP pistol of their time). Christianity and self defense are not mutually exclusive. Christ was also pro capital punishment, does that surprise you? He was 'into' many things that big churchs never teach, but it is all right there either in word or in deed just waiting for any student to discover for themself. :)

Jwilliams has some good and interesting points too, war is not against the law of God, a warrior is never a murderer if acting upon his duties. Murder is lying in wait for an innocent person, or to kill for theft, to kill somebody that has not wronged you, someone not deserving death (criminal homicide). Enemy soldiers will kill you or your loved ones given half a chance; killing them is a warriors duty. Hunting for food is fine, so are acts of good stewardship like thinning out heards, predators or vermin; killing for something to do is not alright; but for feeding friends, family or others, it is fine.

Training, in fact all proper learning, leads to one place, enlightenment; enlightenment is understanding, understanding is the ability to obtain an empty mind, modern gunfighters call this muscle memory, empty mind allows the user to react to whatever changes in their environment or the combat situation. You don't have time to remember how to work the weapon in a fight, that action has to be as natural with you as your own heartbeat. If its not, you will go no further unless very highly blessed. Politcal Correctness has no place in a Christian (or any) Warriors code, it is a tool of evil that perverts the truth of what we were created to be. It is opposed to everything that is good and fair in humanity, making the weak and lazy become the strong, and the strong become useless or weak and timid.

[bobO]

Dotaniki,Jwilliams,Manicottibob, Boy are we all on the same page or what. MB, I'm starting to think we have the same teacher. First off what dotanuki had to say is right on, and science is only now starting to acknowledge this(i know my critters). Second no where in the book does it say thou shalt not kill, it says thou shalt not murder!, and you guy's covered that nicely(we can thank King James and his 80 MF's for a lot of this.) Right thought , right action. MB, I really like the way you think, you too J. you guy's got me all excited, I love it when people get it right.IMO To take the truth and twist it, is the enemy's way. think about it the opposite of love is not hate, hate is love twisted(this is knowledge), the opposite of love is indifference(this is wisdom). We are not supposed to be indifferent to our fellow man. I think a lot of the book is an answer to the first question man asked God " am I my brothers keeper". And where probably getting in trouble right about now, so I've said enough. Still, great thread guy's!!!

[mancosbob]

...To take the truth and twist it, is the enemy's way...

You not only hit the nail on the head; you drove it all the way in with a single blow. =D>

If you get that recently published 1611 version KJV, you will see the letter that the translators wrote to the readers of the work. It explains all the problems getting three languages into one; one that has the issue of constantly changing word meanings over its history. There is one way around all of that, and I use it quite often; it is an older, original Strong's Concordance, which allows an English reader to get to the root meanings of every word in its original language.

BobO, I am honored, yet at the same time troubled, that you like the way I think; it might mean you are too easily amused! LOL! ;)

I feel I am in good company here; I was sort of directed over to this forum without really knowing why; perhaps we shall see why that happened together. This is but the begining of a journey that might last one day or, it might last forever.

[bobO]

Have you ever listened to a really wise man, not just knowledgeable, but wise. The things they say, ring true, they resonate, with that something you can't put your finger on, but you know in your heart of hearts that this is a truth(this I call my spirit man, he never lies to me, but lets me chose, I'm learning to chose wisely), . Well all I do is repeat and try to live those things that I have heard that have resonated in me. But chance favors the prepared mind, so I try to cover my bases. And yes I am easily amused, a blessing! Also the older I get the more I am amazed(always keep a child like curiosity, you will die young), nothing happens for nothing, what a very amazing journey it has been.(so far!) I also have been fascinated by language, something we take for granted but know so little of. Also myth, so very important to the human condition, yet so many of us know so little about it, yet crave it(look to starwars etc.for the proof of this) This I would think is something Richard would have some knowledge on(what is Mary if not the moon goddess in a new guise). Sorry guy's your seeing bobO with a buzz!

[mancosbob]

I listen to a lot of wise guys! And yes bobO, nothing happens, at least to God's election, without a reason. I think that this is all sort of like the sub-plot in HIGHLANDER...that part where, as there are fewer and fewer left, they get ready for the gathering.

I think that the spirit man you refered to is whispering right now, but soon that whisper might become a calm voice speaking clearly. In turn, that might become a voice which is shouting, but by that time, nobody much will be listening, just a few of us. This is when things will become very interesting.

:paladin:

BTW, who is the Richard you referenced above? Don't get me started on Mary worship either; I have a hunch more than a few heads are going to roll over that one, but who am I to judge; all I am allowed to do is discern, not judge.

[bobO]

LOL, I had to go back and reread what I wrote as I was under the influence of sambuca(evil stuff). I probably should have left out the reference to Mary, as this is the kind of thing that causes trouble, sorry if I offended anyone.As to Rich I was hoping he would chime in on this as I would like to hear what he has to say on this kind of thing. Rich is our resident explorer and wizard.( is that fair to say ,Rich?) Can't have swords without some sorcery.

[Dotanuki]

Sorry guy's your seeing bobO with a buzz!

Actually when I read this, I thought you were the one we gave the Daigoro haircut to, at that last party! =))

Religion and Politics, Very seldom [if ever] have I seen anybody change anothers mind by arguing over these subjects. Most of the time they just cause animosity and hurt feelings.
Just a friendly reminder, I am not telling anybody not to engage in such topics, just please think, before you do.

[Firehand10k]

Its great to see these dicussions go as smoothly as they do here. We have quite a variety of views here and all manage to have respectful and informative conversation on them. It fits in here too since swords and prctices associated with them , especially Japanes from what I've read, can be very spiritual tools. I use mine directly and symbolically for some of my practices. Others use or view them purely sybolically. Either way theres a connection for many of us between our beliefs and practices and our swords.
Its great that we can openly share here and look at each others comments as a way to broaden our perspectives rather arguements to change them.

Oh yeah: If your curious to know more Richard does have this link to his website posted on his forum profile. It may help clarify bobO's comments.
http://www.geocities.com/deserthenge/

[mancosbob]

Its great that we can openly share here and look at each others comments as a way to broaden our perspectives rather arguements to change them. Oh yeah: If your curious to know more Richard does have this link to his website posted on his forum profile.

Ah Ha, thanks Firehand, now I understand; I was 'there' in the late 70's for several years...Blessed Be...y'all. =)

Animal Empathy

This is the ability to feel what an animal feels, people that are in touch with their inner animal have this ability.
I believe that society, since our birth tries to eradicate our natural animal instincts, to force us into a robot like existence.

Dotanuki, I never addressed what you said here; guess I had to cogitate on it for a bit. I have been in touch with something that tells me a lot since I was a tiny tike. It let me know that there was more to life than what people were willing to tell me, but I had to go look for it myself; that caused me no end of problems growing up in a big box church.

Years before the moose thing I talked about up-thread, I had dabbled in many things, but found a good fit where I am at right now. A lot of study has actually set me free, as opposed to making me a slave to the traditions of men; but then, He did say His burden was easy, and He is telling the truth. I had determined to visit a Dineh (Navajo) friend of mine, and we did an Inipi ceremony (a sweat lodge follwed by a 3 day vision quest). My vision showed me my path in life; which I am still on. No drugs were involved, just fasting and prayer to the "Great Spirit", the maker of all things. I meerly asked to be allowed to learn the true truth, not what some profit minded religion wanted me to believe for their benefit.

It took a while, but He came through, and I now know a peace that is very fulfilling, and as my time grows shorter, I can now see the plan was always there; it was just my own stuborn blindness that kept me from seeing it.

It all boils down to getting in touch with your inner man, you see that inner man is the permanent part of your being, this flesh is just a temporary shell used to go through this 'earth school' with. Your spirit will tell you the truth as long as you are faithful to what it has said in the past, and if you are willing to listen.

[bobO]

See, now your just freaking me out. I was even learning navajo from my friends in Kansas(GO Jayhawks)! And yes I did the 3 day vision quest. Think I read to much Carlos Castaneda, when I was young. Then again I use to go walleye fishing with Bill Buroughs, You know the Naked Lunch guy. That in itself was pretty trippy at times. Yup, we (I'm afraid to tell you) think alike, MB. Guy's I'll have to take a picture of my new view, you guy's a gonna hate me. I will say this on that. We are connected, The golden rule applies, Do to others as you would have done unto yourself. This is what I call the Golden thread of Truth, and it is in ALL the world's religions. It's really pretty simple.

[Nanshoji]

Where can I find an unedged and untipped katana? I believe their called Iaito. I thought it would be cool to find one and use it cas I am going to join the SCA this summer with my friend nathan.

[mancosbob]

See, now your just freaking me out. I was even learning navajo from my friends...

More freaky stuff 101, just for bobO, but not really. Now I know 99% of all who read this this will go,"Yeah right, sure you did", and that is cool, I find it hard to believe, and I lived it. It was summer vacation 1973, I was looking forward to the last year of High School when my girl and I broke up. My buddy Mark saw I was feeling bummed out and started trying to hook me up with other chicks. I was not ready, so it did not go well. After a month he noted I was still brooding and started asking what I was going to do about it. That is when I shared a dream, vision...whatever you wish to call it with him. I said I was told,or had a feeling, that my one true love was a child, maybe two or three right now, and that I would not meet her until late in my life.

"You're wierd, you know that?" Was all he said and dropped the subject.

He and I were taking a trip about a year or so later, and got lost due to some freeway construction, the 210 was not done yet, even though my new map said it was. I was forced off the fwy about a mile shy of the Northbound I-5, which had been my goal. Foothill Blvd was closed, and I had to detour over Roxford to get back to the I-5. I was lost, and driving in 100% unknown territory, totally in the dark. I stoped to think for a second, and out of the blue, BAM!, it hit me....I was near where she lived! I told Mark that I had some really wierd vibe that I was close to that girls house; that it was out here someplace. Since we were in the middle of some dead looking orchards, he thought I was doing some wierd drugs or something, but I was clean and sober. I started back up and within another 500 yards saw a sign that said I-5 one quarter mile ahead. Let me tell you, that made me way happy, and I forgot the feeling of proximity to the mystery dream girl.

Years went by, lots of them, so did two wives, well one real one and one live in type, plus a bunch of bad relationships in between. That second marriage, the live in girl freind was going nowhere about 12 years ago now. It was all over, but I just did not want to admit it.

I was at my hum-drum, dead end caca job, when the office manager strutted in this new employee. What a knock out smile I thought; nice pants too! Really nice pants! But she looked pretty young to me so I figured, "Yeah right, what am I thinking, pops?"

Time went by, and the checker at the local cafe asked me how things were, and I told her about my current girl and her increasing bad baggage. She asked if I had met the new girl at my company, and I said we were just introduced, that was all. I told her I was attracted to her but figure the age dif was too much. Next thing I know she is fixing me up, seems the new girl was asking her about me. We met and had out first date in November, spent Christmas together; I proposed in February, and we were married the following September.

Here is the deal, she was born in 1970, and still lived with her folks when we met (it was right after her first marriage went bust). Her home was in a place called Sylmar, just 4 blocks south of Roxford, about half a mile from the northbound I-5 ramp...that same ramp I was trying to find in 1974. WOOOO-ewwwww-ooooooh-woooooo (you know that wierd One Step Beyond music [told you kids it was for bobO]).

Oh, the Navajo connection, I almost forgot. My wife (the dream wife) and I were on our honeymoon, and traveling through northern Arizona on our way to Mesa Verde, and later Silverton (she wanted to see all my favorite places I had told her about, so we did a few). I stopped by a roadside stand, east of the Grand Canyon and we looked at all the trinkets, and then I saw this beautiful inlaid hair clip with matching ear rings. My bride really liked it, but I realized I did not have enough cash, and the lady seller did not have a credit card account.

I asked her if she would take a check, but she said only local ones. I told her we were from California and she laughed and said no way. I pulled out my checkbook and asked if she would just look at it; I asked this while looking her right in the eye. After a moment of thought, she reached for my check book and looked at the top check. It had the image of a squash blossom Indian necklace on it; she snickered and started to hand it back. I said check out my address. With a puzzled look on her face, she glanced at the address and broke out laughing and said she would take my check. At that time I lived on a street that was called Navojo Lane.

So now you know most of my current story; even if you do not believe it, I hope you found it a good read.

[Firehand10k]

Have you ever looked into past life theories at all? I hove noticed that frequently, not always but enough to look more than coincidental, connections like you and her are based on past life contacts.

Of course there is always just the perfect match sometimes and those'll let you know too.

Cool thing about the hair clip too. Sweet that it worrked out.

[bobO]

Good point firehand, There are more things in heaven and hell, Horatio. To quote Shakespeare. And sometimes you just meet these people to learn or finish old business or a chance to clear up old karma, don't get me going! MB, You got Great story's my friend, keep em coming! What I've noticed, we live in a wondrous universe, filled with infinite possibility.

[mancosbob]

Have you ever looked into past life theories at all?

As a matter of fact, I have. Now as a Christian, I am well aware that there is no such thing as reincarnation, from our point of view. That being said, here is what I have uncovered from searching the original Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic manuscripts used to translate our bible from.

1st, the earth is as old as science says, maybe older than they know. Bible thumping preachers give Christians a bad name when they make statements like, man lived with dinosuars, and the earth is only 6000 years old. Give it a rest, the facts speak for themselves!

2nd, the bible talks about 3 distinct earth ages. The first has passed, it ended when Satans War in heaven boiled over onto the earth, and God destroyed all physical (flesh) life, everything, even the microbes and such stuff. Man was living then, just not in the flesh, we were in our spirit bodies (the balance I deleted prior to posting, as it gets pretty deep). When we get flashes of past lives, these come from beings not yet in the flesh, usually not the best ones either, who witnessed past goings on. I have no way of knowing how many "children" God made, but it is described as being as many as there are stars up in the heavens, between 12 and 20 billion I have been told.

Jeremiah 4:22-27 in the KJV makes for a very interesting read. I will stop here, because going any further is a really big step; I would be obligated to make you pick between the red pill and the blue pill.

Of course, all this is a private interpretation, based on decades of deep study. I always knew there was more to the word that I was ever taught, and a life long quest to find out more was a result.
:paladin:

[Firehand10k]

2nd, the bible talks about 3 distinct earth ages. The first has passed, it ended when Satans War in heaven boiled over onto the earth, and God destroyed all physical (flesh) life, everything, even the microbes and such stuff. Man was living then, just not in the flesh, we were in our spirit bodies (the balance I deleted prior to posting, as it gets pretty deep). told.

Jeremiah 4:22-27 in the KJV makes for a very interesting read. I will stop here, because going any further is a really big step; I would be obligated to make you pick between the red pill and the blue pill.


I should like to here more of your interprtations. I read The referenced passages and not sure of which meaning you were alluding to. As to the red or blue pill; I would choose the one that reveals your truth. It may include (and likely does at your level of research) something that I have missed. At the same time I am confident in my truth and likely to find paths to some of the few secrets I am still searching for.

I do believe in reincarnation and have distinct memories of several lives. Don't worry, I have no ideas that I was anyone historically significant. I was there for some major world events but not much of a player in any of them.

I ask your veiws and share mine only as a participant in a quest for knowledge. I think V-ger's programming said it best : "learn all that is learnable".
If you feel up to continueing but don't want to do it in open forum please PM me or e-mail me at firehand10k@ yahoo or hotmail, although I suspect bobO and possibly a few others may also be interested to see where this leads (just guessing).

[bobO]

Firehand, Good guess, I think it's okay here on the forum, so long as everyone respects everybody's views. Great stuff the mystery's.

[mancosbob]

This is hard for me, because I am a student and not really a teacher. I don't want to sound like I have all the answers, because I surely do not! With that said, just like in a new dojo, before you can fence with live blades and the instructor, you might need to get a few skills up to speed first; are we agreed on this point?

I then request that you read what is written at the following link and see what you make of it before we really get going.

http://www.biblestudysite.com/1stage.htm

Also, you may see things that seem to not fit well as you read, feel free to note these, but do not ask me about them until you read all of this page. Try not to branch off on the other studies until it is their time; it will be suggested that you study something at a link, then that will be the proer time and place. All will be addressed at its proper time. Please save questions, and I will either answer those I can, or we will look for the answer together.

[Dotanuki]

I've got to give you guys credit, Very seldom have I seen a group of guys this respectfull and courteous of someone else's beliefs.
A true testament on how responsible adults 'should' act.
It is really a pleasure to be in company of honorable people, reminds me of history. Richard the Lionheart and Salladin were different religions and waging war on one another, but both had the utmost respect and admiration of each other.

M-Bob, who's knows? With your wife you might have just been remembering the future. Destiny?

[mancosbob]

Life is too short to fight over things of the spirit; as a person who follows a set of beliefs, I have learned respect for others belief systems. You see, I came to my current place on this path via organized religion, then into some experimental other denominational schtick, eastern mysticism and then I entered what some call the occult arts. I was into wiccan beliefs and studies for about 5 years; this meandering path led to an inner understanding of other souls journeys along their own paths. If I had run accross a zealous Inquisitor or a Puritan while I was into the study and actual practice of my (for lack of a better term) 'pagan period'; I might have been killed because of that study; such is our legacy. I feel only the creator of a soul has the ultimate right to judge it. Since he alone knows the heart of that soul, he alone can judge it without any error. I do not have that gift of mind reading, so I dare not act as a judge; besides, it is really not part of my nature or desire. I have been misjudged before and do not appreciate fools in positions of power; they are as bad as the professional liars that corrupt our freedoms and feed our prisons to justify their cruel existance. Note, I am not judging here, but I am allowed to discern a danger in my path.

:detective:

[Firehand10k]

You haven't lost me. I'm just reading the links carefully making sure I get what I can out of them before getting in deeper. It takes me a bit to get throught them too with a 18 month old climbing me every few minutes.
I do see a good basis in some of it but I see some of the references to time gaps a bit forced. Its gonna take me a little time to really get down the ideas as some of them seem to allude to the secret histories that those like me spent millenia hiding (I'll clarify that later, promise.) in the mean time I wanna finish reading this.

[Dotanuki]

The Quest for Enlightenment

The Holy Grail, Shangri-La, Satori.
Since man first was able to develop thoughts, these questions have intrigued him.
What will be your path to the top of the mountain?

I just watched the old movie "Circle of Iron" on Showtime [with David Carradine]. The main character was on a quest for "The Book" of all things and knowledge, at the the end when he found it, the pages were all just mirrors reflecting back his own image.

RIGHT AND WRONG

Imagine;
There is no heaven, no reincarnation, no nothing, just oblivion

Image also;
There is no Hell, no punishment, just oblivion

I would always do what was right!
For no other reason, but that it was right!
After all isn't that what right is?
To do otherwise would be wrong!
Why should I be rewarded with an reward [afterlife] for doing what is right?
After all I am only doing what is right!
Why should I do right because of threat of punishment, if I am only doing what is right because I am afraid I will be punished if I don't, [hell] then I am not doing truely what is right,
If I do right under threat of punishment, I will do wrong under threat of punishment.

So to do right, is only the natural order of things, otherwise it would be wrong.
Remember that Santa Claus song "So be good for goodness sake"
Sometimes I think we tend to make things too complex, the simple answers are right under our noses. Like the Wizard of Oz, the Tin Man, Lion, and Scarecrow were searching for something they already had, they just didn't realise it.

BTW, I do believe in a God,afterlife, and Hell,[independent] but I live my life like the above, after all I am only doing what is right!
I believe we all know instinctively also, what is right and wrong. You don't need a government or church to tell you this.

[bobO]

I like that. The desire to be with out desire is a desire. This is why I like Zen, it embraces these paradox's. I lived the life contrary, and it only comes back to bite you in the butt. So do good for goodness sake, I like that.

[mancosbob]

Doing good is nice, it is a proper behavior of a decent person. It also means how we behave when nobody is watching; that is another true test between right and wrong.

I wish sometimes I did believe that this was all there was; things would be so easy then. On the other hand, if I am right or even close, that is still an option. There is no eternal punishment like a burning hell, at least as far as I read. Perdition is destruction, a second death, the end of the spirit. My take is that for those who will not be good, thus do not love others, they will be blotted out, so the rest will not have to deal with them anymore.

If there is nothing beyond this flesh life, we will never know it; if there is something, I still might have it all wrong (ya buys a ticket, you takes your chances). I have spent most of my life being a servant of some sort, which is fine, as I enjoy helping people. If I could design my own heaven, it would be something like that perfect matrix that did not work and had to be replaced with one that had some "drama" in it. If the (desired) eternal life is anything like this one...I will be taking the blue pill this time, as I have had enough of the majority of humanities habits and issues. I desire to cast off the petty bickering and worthless power trips of the workplace, the local volunteer group, and all things that people made. I am not like that, and I have never fit into that mold; I know because I have tried and failed so many times at trying to be just like everybody else. Thats never gonna happen!
~X(

[Firehand10k]

Dotanuki said that really well. I like the idea of doing what is right while imagining there is no consequence and in fact actually believe that more than any other doctrine.
I do not believe in any religion but i do believe it what could be called a form of spiritualism. I will try to spell out the prime points of it here for discussion. I believe much of what science has found but there are many gaps. There are forms of energy that science has not identified or explained, and some that it just rejects. The most signifact of these is Life, not life like being alive but a background energy that allows the conciousness to exist.
We MUST start with the physical organic body. Our spirits are esentially beings comprised of the Life organized into a pattern by perception. We percieve the world around us therefore we know that we exist ("I think therefore I am"). Our bodys start out with Life in them but disorganized. As we experience the world around us we begin to percieve, first the outside world then ourselves. All animals (and everything else that lives to some extent) have this spirit but only humans have the reasoning and communication abilities needed to decide what it will do after they die.

Afterlife: Each man's heaven is his own. I read that somewhere and it is a simpler idea than it may seem.
When we die our spirit separates from our body. It must then know what it expects or it will linger and slowly lose its own definition thus fading to oblivion. How can it continue to percieve a self base on a physical form without that form? If the person believes strongly in a form of afterlife his perceptions will bring him to experience it. Those perceptions will allow the spirit to maintain awareness of itself and continue. Sprits with similar beliefs will usually make a connection with each other either before they are relased or after and group together to strengthen the Life pool they share to continue to exist.

Reincarnation: I don't think there's any sort of karma effect or anything like that. Reincarnation is simply a spirit that reattches itself to a physical form (before a new spirit is produced) and experiences a new set of perceptions. The new perceptions due to organic variances in the new body from the old give the spirit a new perception base and cercumstances give a new life experience. The new perceptions often difer enough from the old to make the spirit partially or temporarily forget its previous life but the old life is still there.

Those are my veiws and as i know it have been for over 15000 years. I'm not out to convince anyone anything. Just to share a differt point of view.

[bobO]

Just got done reading Mbob's link, some of this is new to me! I for one, don't have a problem with evolution, we evolve all the time, emotionally, physically, spiritually. I tend to take things more on faith. I'll know God's plan when I'm sitting at his feet and he tells me. I also find the whole fearing God thing wrong, why should I fear my father? I like to think we get more then one time to get it right(it's hard). Could just be wishful thinking. My idea of hell, would be the absence of God, knowing there is love and peace and beauty right over there and not being able to get to it. Wish I knew how to type. A lot of this study I agree with. Although I would like to get into just what is an angle? I for one would not want to be one, I think our spirits are higher up on the food chain. Firehand, See if you can get your hands on "the emerald tablets of Thoth the atlantean" fun read.

[mancosbob]

...I also find the whole fearing God thing wrong, why should I fear my father? I like to think we get more then one time to get it right(it's hard). Could just be wishful thinking. My idea of hell, would be the absence of God, knowing there is love and peace and beauty right over there and not being able to get to it. Wish I knew how to type. A lot of this study I agree with. Although I would like to get into just what is an angle? I for one would not want to be one, I think our spirits are higher up on the food chain. Firehand, See if you can get your hands on "the emerald tablets of Thoth the atlantean" fun read.

FEARING GOD = Another case where the language and intent has changed, revere, as in being in reverence of is what it should read for todays reader in most cases; fear is intended only for non believers and those who have no love in their hearts.

HELL = Here is where I upset all the mainstream big box church people. Find me one place in the bible that talks about a burning hell, like those that are preached, where people are on fire and suffering. You will not. God is not a monster looking for somebody to BBQ. In the Book of Revelation, Death and HELL are cast into the lake of fire, and so are those not found written into the book of life (Rev 20: 14-15). But what is this lake? It is Gods Power, his glory; our god is an all consuming fire (Heb 12:29) and as such,what happens when fire consumes something? Does ash know pain? The Book of Revelation call this, "THE Second Death", which will be the death, or consumption of all bad spirits by God, or rather Gods Shekiniah Glory, which is the warmth we believers feel when we are about his business. The smoke of their burning rises up forever, but what is smoke and ash but a product of combustion. Malachi 4:3

bobO, if you love God, you will never be absent from Him, remember the story of the Prodical Son; God loves all his children, he may not love all of our actions, but he loves them. God never leaves us, it is the other way around, we walk away from him. We can go too far, but that requires us hearing his warning call and ignoring it.

An Angle is a corner, but I think you meant an angel :). One point is this, angels do not have wings, all angel means is Gods Messenger. Our spirit body already is an angelic body. When God said, "Let US make man in OUR image", he was not talking to himself, He was speaking to the 2/3rds of the remaining host that had not followed Satan. I saw an angel in 2004, he was in his late 20's, and was of a very fit and powerful form, like a Spartan Soldier from the movie 300. I was in a situation where I was nearly helpless, you see, I have some knee problems, so I am not what I once was when it comes to self defence. I was on my way to meeting place (on foot) and took a path that looked safe, but that turned out not to be the case. Since I had to pass through metal detectors when I reached my final destination, all I had were my papers and briefcase.

Do you all know who Michael Clark Duncan is? http://www.ucmovie.com/images/cast/duncan-cast.jpg (http://www.ucmovie.com/images/cast/duncan-cast.jpg) Well his big brother (look-alike only) came running at me from behind with a racial epithet on his lips, being as I was the only blue eye for probably miles, I figured he meant me...well, you get the idea. I looked about and saw my only chance at a weapon, and grabbed an empty galvanized garbage can with the intent of killing this guy. I never turned to face him, I just dropped my case, put my hand through the side handle and waited for the distance to close; watching his progress with my periferal vision.

As he reached me and I prepared to make the edge of the cans base lip, contact his head, then, another figure appeared almost between us. Where he came from I have no idea, I was in an enclosed hallway which had no doors; but I suddenly became aware of a very new presence. He sort of showed up in the space of a single blink. This guy was the scariest dude I ever saw in my life, about 6'4" all lean farmer muscle, not work out muscle, but work hard muscle, shaved head white power looking tatoos (which should have gotten his shirtless chest shot in that neighborhood). This guy threw one punch and my attacker went down like a decapitated sumo holding a big bag of rocks. And then my newest bestest friend ever started to go to work. A moment later, two LASO Deputies came racing from in front of me (I guess those security cameras near the courthouse must work) and with PR24's blazing tried to break up the fight. Two more showed up and one yelled at me to get lost, so I took his advice and hobbled off to my meeting. I turned to look and I see the first two deputies getting tossed off like they were 10 year old kids; they actually got some air...I figured I had better leave, thank God I was wearing a nice suit that day, they must have thought I was somebody important.

Oh, and as to the "food chain" (pecking order might be a better term), we are the children of God, but also the servants of God, as like when we help our parents and elders, not like a slave or anything. The angels are the servants of the seravnts of God. So you won't be an angel, yet you will be an angel.
:paladin:

[Firehand10k]

Looked it up and found an online version. Read the first two tablets. There are hints of the secret histories in there but nothing much yet. If these emerald tablet were recorded after the fall of Atlantis I don't expect to find too much there but I will read the rest. If they were hidden in Eqypt then they were deemed safe for the world long ago. I know that the Egyptian records were purged durring the cleansing wars after the Fall. The intro metioned records in Mexico too but didn't say anything about those being found. I have never, yet been able to find out if the ones in Mexico were cleaned out or if they even existed though.

[mancosbob]

I found this link while looking about; perhaps a few of you might like it as well:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/index.htm

:machinegun:

[Firehand10k]

That site has alot of interesting information. Thats where I first looked up parts of the mahabarata after reading about wars with air craft and a nuclear weapon 8000 years ago or more.

Well made it through Tablet 4 the only bit so far that seems it may carry a bit of wisdom was:

Deep in the silence,
first ye must linger until at last ye
are free from desire,
free from the longing to speak in the silence.


Conquer by silence, the bondage of words.
Abstaining from eating until we have conquered
desire for food, that is bondage of soul.


Then lie ye down in the darkness.
Close ye your eyes from the rays of the Light.
Centre thy soul-force in the place of thine consciousness,
shaking it free from the bonds of the night.


Place in thy mind-place the image thou desireth.
Picture the place thou desireth to see.
Vibrate back and forth with thy power.
Loosen the soul from out of its night.
Fiercely must thou shake with all of thy power
until at last thy soul shall be free.

Except for the part about vibrating back and forth with thy power ,that sounds a little neurotic, but the part about the focusing in and imaging your result ties into what I know.

Back again just got through Tablet 5- This one hints deeper into the secret histories. It mentioned the 3 Men taught to be the teachers but the timeline is off. It said they were chosen from the high in Atlantis but hte were chosen well before the rise and even led to the building of the city. It also refers to them being taght by one high master when in fact three were chosen because they were taught by Three that spoke as one. It also claimed that then had to learn for fifteen years to achieve wisdom, when in fact it was several lifetimes before they were able to do many of the things they were being taught on their own, and they were still far from wisdom.

[bobO]

I've read these things, the Verda's and Upanishads(spelling?) They describe radiation sickness etc, spooky stuff. I think it's all about vibration, look to string theory. One thing is how they maintain there self thru the rebirth process, and how to side step the demons who will stop you from doing this. I can see your up on these things firehand.Mbob, Great story! One thing, I don't think we were created to be servants, per say, more like companions?

[Dotanuki]

Firehand, Manscosbob, and Bob-O!
Just a suggestion, but these posts should have a dedicated thread of their own. Normally I don't care when we go off topic, but many people might miss this subject later, not knowing it was in this thread.
Subjects such as this deserve a thread of their own.
As I said just a suggestion.

[bobO]

Works for me. How do we do that, just put it under "weird stuff".

[Firehand10k]

Thats a grand idea. I have even forgotten where to find it once before. Just been following the conversation where it goes. Can you (mods) move the relevant posts to a new home?

[Dotanuki]

I will see what I can do, never did that before. :)

[Mako]

I think that if this thread was split into another topic like 'Weird Stuff' there'd only be 2 or 3 posts left.:)

[mancosbob]

I think that if this thread was split into another topic like 'Weird Stuff' there'd only be 2 or 3 posts left.:)

"He don't know me very well do he?" :king:

"Be wawy wawy quiet, I'm huntin wabit!" :machinegun:

"What is the law!" :jig:

"You made us in the house of pain!" :flaming:

"The wheels on the bus go round and round..." :rockin:

These are but a few the voices that are in my head..... :evilbat:

=))

[bobO]

Those that break the law, must go to the house of PAIN ( love that movie)! Mako, your looking at the glass half full. It's not that this thread would be diminished, but that the new one will be chock full!