Body Mechanics

[Ben]

I'd like to start a discussion on the body mechanics of a correct cut.

To me it begins in the legs, then to the rotation of my torso which puts my arms into motion. My arms are more of a guide to the sword then a source of power. As my arms guide the sword to its target my wrist starts to straighten out and my arms slide the sword along the target, with my wrists fully extended at impact. The sword glides completely through the target. Also, the correct amount of relaxation is key to achieving the correct velocity.

How would you summarize your body mechanics?

[Bladeaddict]

That sounds correct but iwas always taught that the power of a slice while depending largely on leg technique is also augmented by a slight snap in the wrist right before one strikes a target ( obviously only on down ward strikes) however since the actual strength in a Katana is found by pulling as you slice. now i may be doing it all wrong but that is the way i was taught to cut... lol:)
*i say i may be doing it all wrong because, even though i've had it explained to me many times i still screw up from time to time :( *

[RedZorak]

I was always told that the power comes from the hips...

[Jason Moore]

I was always told that the power comes from the hips...

Me too...>:) HAHAHA

I had to put that in lieu of the fact that joelybob isn't here...

[RedZorak]

Me too...>:) HAHAHA

I had to put that in lieu of the fact that joelybob isn't here...

You know it to be true=P

[Bladeaddict]

The hips! dangit!! i knew i was forgetting something=(
My sensei puts emphasis on stance so if we miss something stance related we get the vengeful justice known as the Shinai
*thwak* AIEEEE!
*whimpers*
Osu! Sensei! *rubs posterior*:cry:

[Jason Moore]

I think the best reinforcement out there is a good thwack with a shinai. I went for some private lessons when I was younger and that guy always had that shinai! =P~

[alant]

Sounds old school, spare the shinai and spoil the child/student. Perhaps in traditional schools or home countries, but I don't see it as method being practiced in the general US martial arts market which involves strip mall dojos and karate moms.

[Dotanuki]

Personally, I think the only reason commercial schools are popular, is because parents have neither the guts or the sense to discipline their own children, most who have never been disciplined themselves. They send their kids to these dojo's to have someone else do their job.
Although you are right, hitting someone with a shinai as motivation, could end up in a lawsuit.
Sorry to get off topic.
Don't worry guys, keep practicing and down the line everything will be as natural as breathing, just as trying to explain walking [if you think to much on how to walk, it will take you forever to get to your destination].
Wow, that sounded kind of zen, didn't it?=D> that smiley there is the sound of one hand clappng.

[Bladeaddict]

No wonder they call you respected warrior......Man that was deep!
:-O =D>

[69NINJA]

=;




clap?



`

[Bladeaddict]

=;




clap?



`

What?=(

[sumo]

yep and getting deeper :horseplop:

[Jason Moore]

I am not sure what is going on... :-<

[69NINJA]

What?=(

i was just commenting on Dotanuki's post that mentioned " the sound of one hand clapping " =;



`

[Jason Moore]

Oh ok... I get it now! :-<

[Bladeaddict]

im still clueless..... it thought i was applauding his comment....
Forgive my stupidity.......=(

[Dotanuki]

Well, don't feel bad, when you guys use letters instead of words, most of the time I sit here and scratch my head and go WTF [that one I know].=)

[Ben]

Omg! Idk! Lol! Wth!

[Jason Moore]

Roflmfao...=))

[Dotanuki]

.......SIGH!!!!................

Well I'm glad you guys are having a good time, it kind of brings back memories of when I was a kid. The Grandparents of my friends would always speak in the old tongue, and then point at me. When I would ask my friends what they said, they would always say 'nothing' or 'don't worry about it' or 'nevermind'!!!!
If I knew then what I know now, I could have said GTH, [the letters not the words.]

[bobO]

WAY back in the day, I was taught,besides everything you guy's were talking about ,that you should "sink" when cutting.So what happens now when I cut is the top of the bottle falls off very nicely but the bottom shoots up in the air like a bottle rocket.

[Ben]

Yes, dropping your wieght a little can help your follow through.

Lately I've been developing my "wrist snap" at the begining of contact. I've found that this not only witholds kinetic energy but adds to it as well.

[tsafa]

Cutting bottles is a lot of fun and can be a great training tool. I do it myself once in a while. I usually cut Pepsi bottles which can be very tough with a single-hand sword. It is much easier with a two-handed weapon because of the lever action. I try to create the lever action with the single-handed sword too. It involves holding the handle mainly with the index finger and thumb. The rest of the fingers are loose on the handle. A second before impact, you squeeze the rest of your fingers to create leverage. That gives the sword blade additional acceleration at the last second. The method is know in the SCA as a "snap".

When I cut bottles I focus on cutting in with the same manor as I do when fighting. This is not the same technique I would use to cut bottles if wanted to just cut bottles as an end to itself. No doubt, to get the best cut you should twist at the hip and follow through. When fighting, that is not the best thing to do. At least 90% of my shorts will be blocked or avoided, so I don't over-commit to any one strike.

With the longsword, I start from Van Tag (sword-hilt at my waist and blade pointing straight up). I want to end my strike in the longpoint (blade extended straight out) rather then Alber (point towards ground). Doing so does not allow for an easy counter strike. My opponent has to deal with my point in front of him before he can counter-strike. If I end my cut in Alber (point towards ground), a simple Parting Strike (with arms extended) to my head will finish me. So while it is easy to cut a Pepsi bottle if you wind up from behind your back and come all the way around to your feet as you step into it, in a fight you will need to execute your cuts with a bit more reservation. However, with some practice this can be done by anyone.

The challenge is to cut that bottle from Posta Breve. This is an Italian guard where you hold the sword so the point is pointing diagonally out (half-way between Van Tag and Longpoint). It will now be even more difficult to execute an effective cut that ends in longpoint. The blade is traveling only a short distance. You will have to make good use of the leverage of the two-handed grip. The advantage of this starting guard is that you are in a position to use either a thrust or a cut. From Van Tag you can only cut. Cutting Pepsi bottles from Posta Breve is hard to do consistently. You will fail often...but you will be training to fight better. Plastic milk-gallons are much more easy cutting target for this challenging cut.

With a single handed sword always use a shield or put a weapon in your off-hand if that is how you would go into battle. Your range will be limited by the shield. You will have to work your sword around your own shield to cut the bottle. You want to keep the shield in front of you at all times as you cut the bottle. Its not easy. The issue here is "why are you trying to cut the bottle". Are you doing it to just prove a sharp sword can cut a bottle? or are you trying to see the effectiveness of your cut in whatever martial art you practice?

I have nothing against just plain old bottle cutting for fun, but I wanted to bing out some additional benefits that you can get out of it.

[bobO]

tsafa,Great post,you've peaked my interest.Except for one semester of fencing,I've never studied the eur sword arts,shame on me.I just watched the show barbarians 2.The guys on this show really go at it,looks like loads of fun.tsafa,can I try these techniques with a corn leaf saber?If not what sword would you suggest?I remember sparring with a friend him using a épée,myself a bokken.The out come was a surprise to me to say the least.To stand off and trying to fence this guy was sure death for me.The only way to have a even out come was for me to take his point and hope my strike took him out at the same time.

[tsafa]

My search on the Corn leaf saber turns up this Hanwei: http://www.swordsoftheeast.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=137
I can only assume that is has a 2/3 tang like a katana. If that is the case, using the handle to leverage your strikes will likely break it. Given that it only weighs 1 lb 13 oz makes me think it will certainly break. I would only use that sword for slicing drawcuts.

I have seen very positive reports on Darksword products including some very impressive durability tests. I myself have had a good deal of success with Gen 2. Both theses manufactures offer a warranty. Both of these are in the $230 to $260 range. I very much recommend being very straight forward with vendors in telling them how you plan to use their products and ask if the warranty will cover it and for how long. Merchants should be equally honest and straight forward. It is their job to match the right products with the right people. The market is big enough and there are enough products to get a perfect match every time.

[bobO]

That's the sword,that's where I bought it,and that was my assessment of this sword also.And slicing draw cuts are what I demonstrated to my friends as the best type cuts for this sword.HA,great minds think a like!I'm looking into gen 2 swords,waiting till Jason gets some.

[Jason Moore]

My search on the Corn leaf saber turns up this Hanwei: http://www.swordsoftheeast.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=137


Where where yo searching?? My search brought me here:
http://www.swordsofmight.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=76
;)

That's the sword,that's where I bought it,and that was my assessment of this sword also.And slicing draw cuts are what I demonstrated to my friends as the best type cuts for this sword.HA,great minds think a like!I'm looking into gen 2 swords,waiting till Jason gets some.
Shame on you BobO! I would have matched the price for you...:cry:

[tsafa]

Blame Google for that one :))

Bobo, your profile says you are 55 years old. Is that right?

[Jason Moore]

You couldn't even go to the second page?? X(

[bobO]

Sorry didn't know you where around then,trust me you get what disposable income the old lady don't.Born in 55,I'm 52 going on 18.

[tsafa]

Most of the best fighters in the SCA are upwards of 40 years old and have a lot of gray on their head. There are many guys that do it into their 50's. Some guys in their 60's still do singles combat but avoid the meeles.

[bobO]

Lets not forget that experience and treachery will win out over youth and enthusiasm every time.I'd mêlée, but only if I could stand there and have the opponent come to me.

[tsafa]

Lets not forget that experience and treachery will win out over youth and enthusiasm every time.

That is the most common quote in the SCA.

You would be a spearman. The spears are 9 foot or 12 foot. You stand behind some shieldman and attack from there. If you see the enemy charging through, you fall back. A spearman does not want to get mixed up in the pushing and shoving. If the sides are equally matched, the shieldmen usually cancel each other out. They kill as often as the are killed themselves. It is the spearmen that make all the difference, because they are able to pick people off from a safe distance. Because they do not get killed themselves, they are able to effect the army ratios.

Archers would have the same effect. In some battles we allow for combat archery. We have archers on the field with blunt tipped arrows. I have never seen enough of them so that they can effect the battle in a meaningful way. They have only so many arrows and most of them are gona miss or hit a shield. Spearmen on the other hand get close enough to get faceshots everytime and their don't have ammo that runs out.

[bobO]

LOL,There was a time in my life I would have scoffed at the thought of being a spear man,give me a sword and show me the way to the foe:paladin:.At the very least a bowman,preferably the one who strikes down the opposing captain.Yada Yada:elf:.Now being a spear-man sounds just ducky to me.Especially the strategic advances to the rear.:)

[Dotanuki]

What is the true Way of Strategy?
To run out recklessly, trying to achieve glory for yourself at the cost of the battle?
Or to function as a cohesive unit, with your brothers in arms!!

Is this not how Sparta became famous and the Romans conquered the World!!

[bobO]

In the real world I served on a FBM-SSBN,talk about a cohesive unit!In my fantasy world the celt in me takes over and yeh I guess then it's personal glory on the battle field.Which is why the scots never took over england,sorry mako.

[Mako]

In the real world I served on a FBM-SSBN,talk about a cohesive unit!In my fantasy world the celt in me takes over and yeh I guess then it's personal glory on the battle field.Which is why the scots never took over england,sorry mako.
Probably why us Welsh never did either bobO. :-? ... but we're still trying. :))

[Torawashi]

my body mechanics may need some adjustments; maybe some of you can help me. here's what i do. first i take the sword by the handle thing and keep the pointy end away from me. then i face the target (usually some unfortunate pool noodle). well, then i stand there and curse for a while to get my nerve up, then I size up the target, close my eyes, and swing real hard in case i hit it. so far i have destroyed 3 potted plants, 2 camcorders, and the tail of a passing coyote who left rather abruptly with a puzzled look on his face. pool noodles are safe though. how's my technique?? ;^)