Seven Samurai

[alant]

Or "Shichinin No Samurai" if you prefer. A village hires 7 unemployed Samaurai to defend them from bandits. I've seen the 1954 movie and it is an epic film (207 minutes, so make lots of popcorn). Akira Kurosawa directed this masterpiece that inspired the western The Magnificent Seven.

Anyone who has not seen this film really should go out and rent it.

Have not seen the anime series (called Samurai Sebun), but somehow doubt it is going to hold the same for me.

[GOBOY]

Or "Shichinin No Samurai" if you prefer. A village hires 7 unemployed Samaurai to defend them from bandits. I've seen the 1954 movie and it is an epic film (207 minutes, so make lots of popcorn). Akira Kurosawa directed this masterpiece that inspired the western The Magnificent Seven.

Anyone who has not seen this film really should go out and rent it.

Have not seen the anime series (called Samurai Sebun), but somehow doubt it is going to hold the same for me.
i have seen the anime Samurai 7 (サムライセブン, Samurai Sebun
it was real good, looks like i will have to go rent the real movie

[Brian Brazier]

This is still one of my favorite Chambara movies of all time, great characters, great storyline, and a great cast.

[hiead]

is this movie available for download through torrent?

[Firehand10k]

http://www.mininova.org/tor/274416

hope its a good site

[Richard Johnson]

Kurosawa's Seven Samurai is THE Classic. Nothing else beats this film.
But notice one thing that is very important...
Every Samurai who dies in the film... is shot with a rifle.

Once you see and think about that, I think we can discuss this fact.

btw, Kurosawa said he got the idea from reading a comment somewhere about a real village that hired samurai to protect them. The rest is history.

[Brian Brazier]

The rifle was the first thing that the Samurai had no defense against (at that time, later came cannons, Gatling guns etc..) it ultimately drove them off the battlefield and eventually into extinction. I believe that is why the only Samurai that were killed in this movie died by the rifle, to illustrate how the rifle changed their existence.

[Nanshoji]

I got to see the last 30 minutes or so where the last raid happened and the remaining samurai killed the bandits and it was over. I liked it and would like to know where to get it to see the whole thing.

[Brian Brazier]

I would get the Criterion Collection copy of Seven Samurai, it will have the best video transfer, sound, etc... it is a little pricy, but worth it, I have this one http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Samurai-Criterion-Collection-Spine/dp/0780020685/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1198024739&sr=1-2, there is also the 3 disk set with all the extras http://www.overstock.com/Books-Movies-Music-Games/Seven-Samurai-Criterion-Collection-DVD/2038061/product.html http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Samurai-Remastered-Criterion-Collection/dp/B000G8NXYG/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1198024883&sr=1-1 http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7949161&st=seven+samurai&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=59125 also check Ebay, if you cannot find a copy in your price range LMK and maybe we can work out a deal for the one I have, it is the single disk copy, and I would like the 3 disk, I enjoy watching all the extras

[rick]

It was not the gun it's self but the samurai's refusal to adapt that killed them
not the gun

[RedZorak]

There is also a Kurosawa DVD pack that has Hidden Fortress, Sanjuro, Yojimbo, and Seven Samurai in one pack if you can find it. http://www.amazon.com/Akira-Kurosawa-Classics-Criterion-Collection/dp/B00006IUI5/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1198042042&sr=8-2

[rick]

I don't shop online cause I don't trust my computer I only order over the phone

[Brian Brazier]

It was not the gun it's self but the samurai's refusal to adapt that killed them
not the gun

that too

[rick]

If the samurai had guns we'd still have samurai

[jwilliams]

If the samurai had guns we'd still have samurai

But not with the same soul of a samurai. They brought it back somewhat in World War II and they had guns and didn't prevail, or maybe they did.

[Dotanuki]

Interesting enough, in WWII those who had a samurai lineage fought in the Navy or Air Force [I can see goose and bobo smiling now]. The army was the former peasant class [think the Last Samurai] who were conscript [drafted] with the exception being the officers. There are many stories of Okinawan Karate Masters that were draft dodgers in WWII [knew they were going to be cannon fodder].

[jwilliams]

Interesting enough, in WWII those who had a samurai lineage fought in the Navy or Air Force [I can see goose and bobo smiling now]. The army was the former peasant class [think the Last Samurai] who were conscript [drafted] with the exception being the officers. There are many stories of Okinawan Karate Masters that were draft dodgers in WWII [knew they were going to be cannon fodder].

Did they know they were going to be cannon fodder or did the war and how it started offend their sense of honor? Or both?

[bobO]

J,thats something to think about.Dotanuki,=)

[rick]

they perverted the concept to fit thair needs like the wakos who use the bible to get people blow up clinics

[Dotanuki]

J, from what I read, being a grunt in the Japanese Imperial Army of WWII wasn't a pleasant experience, [iron discipline and cruelty]. Many of the Okinawans equated it with a death sentence. Moral opposition had nothing to do with it, as there probably wasn't any. Think foreign culture [something our gov. never has] the Japanese are a conformist society, as American free thinkers we should watch where our admiration for Japanese culture leads us.
Many Japanese hate this adherence to a cultural guilt so to speak, this is why movies of the renegade heroes are so popular [bucking the system]. This is why Japanese industry was originally so succesfull [towing the company line]
The martial fervor of the Japanese was at an all time high in pre WWII, to practice martial arts in this period was a lesson in S&M.
In WWII when the Japanese first invaded China, during the Rape of Nanking, two officers held a cutting contest to see who was the better swordsman, they did so by beheading Chinese prisoners. It was reported in and followed daily by the Japanese newspapers, they declared it a draw after 50, because one of the participants bent his sword. They continued on after the contest so many don't know how many prisoners were executed this way. The surviving participant was executed after the war, as a war criminal. Those old WWII movies aren't fiction, you know.

[jwilliams]

Dotanuki,
I yield to you, your post did make me stop and think about how we can romanticize about the Japanese culture because we respect their martial arts and swords so much. I guess technically it's not the Japanese culture, it's the Samurai culture, Bushido, that I want to learn from. The majority in Japan has never been Samurai anyway, if I understand it right.

[rick]

scew the steel It's the warrior sprite I respect ......... the finest weapon is garbage with out a strong hand to hold it and a strong hand is wasted with out a strong mind to command it....

[jwilliams]

scew the steel It's the warrior sprite I respect ......... the finest weapon is garbage with out a strong hand to hold it and a strong hand is wasted with out a strong mind to command it....

True, but the reverse also has merit, the finest mind with the strongest hand with garbage weapons will have a tough time, that's one of the reasons the samurai would sell their house to buy the best sword possible and they consider their sword an extension of themselves.

[rick]

A master with a poor weapon is worth 50 fools with the finest steel .......
the point is a good warrior knows the limits of their weapon and comensates
like when I owned a united s/s sword the brittle stainless was my weapons weakness so I over came it with proper form to be certain the force was absorbed by the hardend edge

[Mako]

...the brittle stainless was my weapons weakness so I over came it with proper form to be certain the force was absorbed by the hardend edge
Eh? :-/
A hardened edge on a stainless steel sword would make the edge even more brittle and the mune even more susceptable to breakage,the only person I've read about that made a functional stainless steel sword outside Japan over Wakizashi length was the late,great Bob Engarth and even these blades have yet to withstand the test of time which I doubt they ever will be subjected to because they are considered as art swords... just like Nihon-to and Shinsaku-to.
The only authentic mass produced stainless blades were purely symbollic made for the Japanese Navy and Marine Corps NCO's which are easily recognised by the "Rising Sun" non-pierced tsuba and katate-maki instead of the traditional Shin-Gunto mounts and even these are being faked now.
With all due respect...just where do you get your information from when it's abundantly clear by your numerous previous posts that it's not by experience or research.

[rick]

yes mako experience with crap weapons .... keep in mind I wasn't striking steel just soft targets ,ie water bottles .sapplings, shrubs not two-by-fours or other swords .......... my point is it was a crap weapon but it could stand more force on the edge than the side so I treated it like it would break so it did not

[Firehand10k]

There's more to being a good or bad weapon than just the material its made from. I have several stainless swords here that are quite sharp and would make excellent cutters (one that, based one blade shape, would likely cut better than most of my spring steel cutters). They have enough material in them that are actually quite usable but I won't because they steel stays prettier unscratched. They were bought intending to be decoration and will stay that way even though I was surprised to find they can be more.

Perhaps your "crap weapon" proved more than you credit it with but you are rolling with common presumptions.

BTW I am sure of the accuracy of what Mako says and know that nothing I mention is in any way "authentic". That best one I mentioned isn't even Japanese.

[jwilliams]

What do you mean by "crap" weapon? Do you mean decorative, or low-end functional? You get what you pay for. Even low-end functional has it's place but can't really be compared to better quality swords.

[Firehand10k]

Oh yeha thats a good point too. One of the easiest cutters I have only cost $37. I don't use it much though since I'm not 100% sure I trust the construction. It seems tough enough but its also pretty enough i don't wanna ruin it.

[rick]

mine was a low end stainless steel full tang (I think 420) with a lose tsaba the blade was about 25 inchs with a 10 handle and hard wood scales (it is still available)and was a gift from my girl friend. the point is I treated it right and it did not fail . It was my first sword

[Brian Brazier]

You get what you pay for.

Isn't that the truth. There are only two brands of swords I can truly say I feel I got more than my money's worth from and those are Paul Chen, and Masahiro. Granted I haven't owned much else, but all the swords I have ever gotten from either Masahiro or Paul Chen have been well worth every cent.

[rick]

I've only owned 4 good ones 1)the united cutlery "funtional" stailess p.o.s.
2)the gen2 bwt katana 3) last legends blind warrior stick sword 4)gen2 lucerne sword

[bobO]

Rick, you lost me when you said "screw the steel".In my house it's all about the steel.The steel in your blade and the steel in your heart.I think it would behoove you to spend a little more time researching.

[Dotanuki]

I,ve never thought there was anything wrong with backyard cutting as long as it was done safely. It is a good way to release frustrations and a fun endeavor seeing how you don't need a lot of space like archery or target shooting. I think it is an excellent way to bond with your children ,children taught how to use weapons at an early age [by their parents] very seldomly abuse them. [taught proper usage].
I enjoy many of the stories and posts here,
BUT,.............
Target shooting water bottles in your back yard with a .22 does not make you a Marine Corps sniper.
Chopping up stuff in your back yard does not make you a sword expert either.
Having fun is one thing, taking yourself too seriously is another.
Remember if, by your own admission, you have never been formally trained, don't try to come across so strongly, as it might offend people who may have spent untold years training. It is kind of like going to the garage and telling the mechanic how to fix your car when you don't even know where the radiator and air filter are.
There's a saying I always use; "I'm sure glad you told me you are an expert, because I never would have known otherwise."
Many times people don't realise that just because people don't out you, [say you don't know what you're talking about] it doesn't mean they believe you either.
I enjoy all the posts here, and consider you guys friends, please take time to reflect on what I'm saying. I try to respect everyone, but you have to show respect to earn respect.

And try to remember, due to the anonymity of the Internet, you never know who you are truely talking to;

They could be a serial killer!:-O........or even a martial arts master?

OR

They could be a cereal killer!=))...........an 8 year old pretending to be an adult!=P

[jwilliams]

Well said Dotanuki

[Brian Brazier]

8 1/2

[rick]

I don't think I'm an expert ........ my sword training came from fighting with a bokken against people with more formal study and geting good enough to win ,so you could say I learned at the dojo of "oh s**t that hurt"

"when I said screw the steel it's the spirit I respect" I ment that to much focus goes to the sword and the WAY OF THE WARRIOR IS OVER LOOKED. It was NOT the sword that made a samurai, it was the samurai that made the sword a piece of history. Now an expert I AM NOT nor do I try to come off as one. I post what I know and I'm here to learn IF I'M IN CORRECT PLEASE LET ME KNOW that's why I joined this form.when I told of my first blade I told it from experience with that blade. I do not have the luxury of expensve japonese steel.It took a full year to save the $300 and change for my gen2 kat. So I have ample experience in making due.The samurai spirit was not just the sword.As in ww2 the japonese infantry where given long bayonets to serve as a seroget sword to incite troops to acts of "samurai" like courage. So to the point the samurai ideal was not unique like the spartans and the moores and knights of old and the vikings before them they all held to a code of conduct and demand of valor and courage.Thats what I respect and what was lost at the end of the samurai age.

[bobO]

Isn't that the truth. There are only two brands of swords I can truly say I feel I got more than my money's worth from and those are Paul Chen, and Masahiro. Granted I haven't owned much else, but all the swords I have ever gotten from either Masahiro or Paul Chen have been well worth every cent.
Isn't that the truth,I feel the same way,more so for the Paul Chen's then the Masahiro.And I only say Chen because they have better QC.(I only have one Mas)But I have never sent one back,and feel I've gotten more then my moneys worth.The blade on my Zat2 is very nice for under 200$,I had a sword at twice the cost,got sent back the next day.

[bobO]

Just watched THE SWORD OF DOOM,great movie ,very dark and Mifune had the best lines."to know the sword,know the soul".A must watch for samurai fans.

[goose710]

Having watched the Seven Samurai again after sooo many years, i was struck by the rain in that movie. How did they keep their swords clean and oiled??? if the movie is to believed it was raining on them almost every day. and, they surely didn't treat their wepons with any kind of regard. sticking them into the soil,falling down in the mud etc. I can believe they cared for them But, after getting the tuska wet in a thunder storm , how do you dry that mess out??? and warpage??? If a tenth of the movie is at all realistic, then it's a wonder more swords were'nt lost to abuse and time.
goose710

[bobO]

To me that always speaks of how a sword was just a tool.The man is the weapon of real importance.But I know what your saying,I just got done watching the last lone wolf, and he's doing his water wave technic.And I'm thinking that's a DOTINUKI your getting wet there buddy! Had to watch 7 samurai for a class in 1981,that was a great class.

[Dotanuki]

Goose,
You have got to remember the elaborate etiquette and protocals were established during the period of non-warfare. When you are fighting for your life in a battle, these things no longer have any meaning. I'm sure after every battle the smiths had plenty of business, replacing the tsuka's and repolishing swords. Then, just as now all swords were not quality swords.
But, these are things you already know of, firsthand. I believe we all get caught up in the romanticism too much. Sometimes our imagination is more enjoyable than the actual reality. You know, kind of like a kid wondering where a soldier keeps the toilet paper when he goes on patrol.

[goose710]

Dotanuki
Who carries toilet paper on patrol????????????????????????ammo,bug stuff,more ammo, some food.
back to basics man!
goose710

i do understand what your'e saying just makes me cringe to see how they treated those swords in the movie. did anyone spot mifune break his sword and go get another one? I think he had a really big sword .what do they call that ? oduchi?

By the way i got that book from japan, the sword book, really nice book the whole shabang!! from forging to tuska making to polishing.
did have to remember to read it from back to front though, seems i forgot since it's been awhile I was in japan.

[bobO]

Goose, was you a mud grunt???in the s#%t. never mind you don't have to answer that.What book,how much? jeeze I sound like rick now,time for seppaku! Yeah I remember him breaking his sword,that's why he had all the other ones stuck in that pile of dirt.

[goose710]

Bob-o
dotanuki advised me of a really nice picture book for sale from Japan, it's in Japonese but the pictures tell the story. was a bit dear at $92.00 with shipping but i like it. some of the swords shown are REAL works of art!! all the gold and presious stones inlaid in tuska and saya "s real nice.
as to your other question i've been in the woods a few times
no need for seppaku Bob-o
goose710

[bobO]

Thank you,Goose(I put the tanto back on the rack),That's the one for sure,good to know these things.O-kay just watched Gotokin GREAT movie,great cast.Also so some previews that looked really good.IZO,a vampire time travel demon flying samurai movie,Baian,with Wanatabe as an assassin looks good and Maki tensho looks like a story right outta Tales from old Japan,another demon samurai movie.