Respect

[Mako]

This post isn't directed at any one individual so please don't think that it is but sometimes I find it difficult to understand why,on so many forums where the members are united in their interest in the weapons and also the culture of the Samurai which was based on respect that some people can't or won't incorporate respect to others in their posts and as such will never gain any themselves on forums and maybe not in real life either.
Does anyone agree...or is it just me?

[goose710]

Mako
I think it was Sockrates/Arostotal One of them guys said,"I fear for the younger generation for they have no respect for their elders", It is nothing new, Respect can be earned by the young, is owed to elders of good charecter, and is so much more civil. It takes very little to listen to that "pain in da butt" (insert relitive's name) and show him/her some respect than to just blow him/her off as some old coot . Everyone wants and needs a little bit o respect.
yes??
da goose710

[Dotanuki]

Well, you know I agree with you!
As do, no doubt, all the core members on this Forum.

The problem lies with the people this is directed at, very often being too clueless to realise we are refering to them.
Sometimes these members are children, who are trying to pretend they are are adults, who don't know any better, or who don't have friends of their own.
They don't realise how juvenile they sound, although many adults are just as juvenile. As I said many threads back, just because we are too polite on this Forum to call a person out, everytime on some of their nonsense, it doesn't mean we believe what you are saying either.
Remember, being a NOOB on this Forum is ACCEPTABLE to all members here.
Being a A-Hole isn't!!
Trying to impress others with knowledge you don't have, will often backfire.
It is better to be thought a fool than open your mouth and prove it!
Kind of like saying you're an auto mechanic, and not knowing where the radiator or battery is located at!

[Sairon]

Well, you know I agree with you!
As do, no doubt, all the core members on this Forum.

The problem lies with the people this is directed at, very often being too clueless to realise we are refering to them.
Sometimes these members are children, who are trying to pretend they are are adults, who don't know any better, or who don't have friends of their own.
They don't realise how juvenile they sound, although many adults are just as juvenile. As I said many threads back, just because we are too polite on this Forum to call a person out, everytime on some of their nonsense, it doesn't mean we believe what you are saying either.
Remember, being a NOOB on this Forum is ACCEPTABLE to all members here.
Being a A-Hole isn't!!
Trying to impress others with knowledge you don't have, will often backfire.
It is better to be thought a fool than open your mouth and prove it!
Kind of like saying you're an auto mechanic, and not knowing where the radiator or battery is located at!



I agree with this also. If you want to learn come and take in the knoledge, but if you want to act like you know everything and can do anything beware that you may get banned.

[Jason Moore]

Well, you certainly won't be banned for thinking you know everything, but you will definitely be chastised for it by everyone. :elf:

[FrozenIpaq]

This is one of the only forums in which I'm a part of that the majority of the users/members are noticeably much older than myself and I did not notice any lack of respect on any individual's part recently, although then again - I did just join this forum just a short while ago.

I manage my own forum where it caters to the younger gaming crowd and I must say, it is quite a handful. I find that the issue boils down to a person's individual ego and wanting to "show off" to others. This is common practice now with the internet being so advance as it is now with social networking sites and "web 2.0" sites.

@Dotanuki - I agree with most of your positions with this matter, except for when you said "or who don't have friends of their own." -- I don't see how that is relevant to respect. With a person having little friends they could want to gain more and show-off online, although they know and we know that online friendships don't translate well to the real-world. I just found this comment a bit offensive and quick to judge.

I think the best course of action would just to tell the person that they are acting childish and leave it at that - asking them to provide more respect to other forum members isn't a bad thing rather than creating a thread saying "you know who you are!".

That's just my $.02

[Mako]

Well, you certainly won't be banned for thinking you know everything, but you will definitely be chastised for it by everyone. :elf:
Can't argue with that and anyone who *thinks* that they know everything is in for a very rude awakening imho.
I'm not going to comment on FrozenIpaq's post as I believe that Dotanuki is more than capable of speaking for himself. ;)
However...I'd like to point out the opening line in my topic,just for the record...

This post isn't directed at any one individual so please don't think that it is...etc

[FrozenIpaq]

Can't argue with that and anyone who *thinks* that they know everything is in for a very rude awakening imho.
I'm not going to comment on FrozenIpaq's post as I believe that Dotanuki is more than capable of speaking for himself. ;)
However...I'd like to point out the opening line in my topic,just for the record...

I'd just like to point out that in my post I was referring to Dotanuki's comment "The problem lies with the people this is directed at" - that's what lead my discussion

[Mako]

I'd just like to point out that in my post I was referring to Dotanuki's comment "The problem lies with the people this is directed at" - that's what lead my discussion
I'm sorry but I must be missing something here...but as stated previously,Dotanuki can hold his own corner and I'm sure he'll respond when he has the time and inclination.

[FrozenIpaq]

I'm sorry but I must be missing something here...but as stated previously,Dotanuki can hold his own corner and I'm sure he'll respond when he has the time and inclination.

I'm a bit confused myself :o I was just pointing out that Dontakui had a person in particular that fueled his discussion/rant. I assumed that you were talking to me when you were referencing the first line in this thread, hence my reply.

If you have any comments on my big blob of a post then please do reply, you don't have to speak for Dotanuki as I was more-or-less discussing the topic in general for the first part of my post, and more specifically with a remark Dotanuki made for the second half - my ears/eyes are always open for comments with what I post

[Dotanuki]

This is one of the only forums in which I'm a part of that the majority of the users/members are noticeably much older than myself and I did not notice any lack of respect on any individual's part recently, although then again - I did just join this forum just a short while ago.

I manage my own forum where it caters to the younger gaming crowd and I must say, it is quite a handful. I find that the issue boils down to a person's individual ego and wanting to "show off" to others. This is common practice now with the internet being so advance as it is now with social networking sites and "web 2.0" sites.

@Dotanuki - I agree with most of your positions with this matter, except for when you said "or who don't have friends of their own." -- I don't see how that is relevant to respect. With a person having little friends they could want to gain more and show-off online, although they know and we know that online friendships don't translate well to the real-world. I just found this comment a bit offensive and quick to judge.

I think the best course of action would just to tell the person that they are acting childish and leave it at that - asking them to provide more respect to other forum members isn't a bad thing rather than creating a thread saying "you know who you are!".

That's just my $.02

EDIT: I see who this may be referring to (overlooked previously) and all I saw it as was small talk and trying to express one's opinion shouldn't be a bad thing. We should respect each others comments, whether they are juvenile or not and respond properly.

Let's see from what you said, you want me to ask a child to stop acting childish?
And respect another's opinion, even though they are acting juvenile?
I think you have this Forum mixed up with your gaming Forum for kids, where they can act foolish and behave as trolls.
With all the Forums out there, I could never understand why kids would want to be on a serious Forum that consisted of older adults that they have nothing in common with. What's that old saying, "Chidren shouldn't play with sharp objects."
For me to be on a Forum dedicated to kids, couldn't be more boring. So why kids want to come play games on a adult themed Forum is beyond me. Online friendships might not be viable for kids as you point out, because they are too busy playing make-believe to to develop a true friendship that an adult who experienced similar life experiences might develop with another. Living through life and death experiences is not the same as how you beat that video game last night! Although some might believe so. [Duh, I almost died on level 5 last night!] The friendships I have made here on this Forum are just as real as any anywhere, sometimes even closer as certain kindred spirits are indeed a rare breed not easily found anywhere in this spoiled world of people who think they are entitled, even though they have never done anything to warrant entitlement.

Reread Mako's thread again, I believe you missed the whole point of the thread.
When a person acts like a spoiled child and then demands he be respected, is exactly the person who will never be respected.
Stomping your feet, holding your breathe till you turn blue and screaming at the top of your lungs may have worked for your parents, but it will not work in the real world!
You do have a point about the "you know who you are"!!
Sairon, please reread my previous post, about the people, to be too clueless to know we are talking about them.
FrozenIpaq, the friends comment; very often a persons friends/acquaintences realise what a loser they are in the real world, so they [the person] come to the Forums hoping it will grant them some anonimity from this revelation, but after a period of time this fact will become self-evident anyway, the only saving grace is they never know who you truely are. But the person does, You can't hide from yourself!
People are often offended by statements, that reflect them.

Is this what you would consider responding properly?

[FrozenIpaq]

Let's see from what you said, you want me to ask a child to stop acting childish?

Yes, to a certain extent. What makes you believe that this person is a child? Just because you share a different opinion on a situation or how he/she handles themselves doesn't make them a child. Just because someone says something that could be disrespectful does not make them a child. If you do not tell a "child" to stop being childish, how do you expect them to change?


And respect another's opinion, even though they are acting juvenile?

Yes, you should always respect someone's opinion, it is exactly that - an opinion. If it is ill-informed, then inform them of what they do not know or what mistake they have made.

I think you have this Forum mixed up with your gaming Forum for kids, where they can act foolish and behave as trolls.

You're a bit misinformed here. The forum I run was dedicated to the Playstation Portable at one time but has since evolved into a general gaming forum that has been widely accepted. I run into many teenagers, however I also run into many grown men (much of my moderating staff is older than myself). We do not allow members to act foolish or behave as trolls, regardless of their age. All users must post with a purpose and flaming is not tolerated (0 tolerance policy)

With all the Forums out there, I could never understand why kids would want to be on a serious Forum that consisted of older adults that they have nothing in common with. What's that old saying, "Chidren shouldn't play with sharp objects."
For me to be on a Forum dedicated to kids, couldn't be more boring. So why kids want to come play games on a adult themed Forum is beyond me. Online friendships might not be viable for kids as you point out, because they are too busy playing make-believe to to develop a true friendship that an adult who experienced similar life experiences might develop with another. Living through life and death experiences is not the same as how you beat that video game last night! Although some might believe so. [Duh, I almost died on level 5 last night!] The friendships I have made here on this Forum are just as real as any anywhere, sometimes even closer as certain kindred spirits are indeed a rare breed not easily found anywhere in this spoiled world of people who think they are entitled, even though they have never done anything to warrant entitlement.

Reread Mako's thread again, I believe you missed the whole point of the thread.
When a person acts like a spoiled child and then demands he be respected, is exactly the person who will never be respected.
Stomping your feet, holding your breathe till you turn blue and screaming at the top of your lungs may have worked for your parents, but it will not work in the real world!
You do have a point about the "you know who you are"!!
Sairon, please reread my previous post, about the people, to be too clueless to know we are talking about them.
FrozenIpaq, the friends comment; very often a persons friends/acquaintences realise what a loser they are in the real world, so they [the person] come to the Forums hoping it will grant them some anonimity from this revelation, but after a period of time this fact will become self-evident anyway, the only saving grace is they never know who you truely are. But the person does, You can't hide from yourself!
People are often offended by statements, that reflect them.

Is this what you would consider responding properly?

I'm not asking you to respect a spoiled child or to respond to one. I'm asking that everyone's opinion be respected. I don't think anyone here has demanded respect while acting like a spoiled child. Either way, we should all respect one another as an individual - we are all born and raised differently. Just because we are on a sword/weapon forum we shouldn't expect respect from ever person (although it would be nice, sometimes we are not respected or shown respect).

You say that the people often offended by your friends statement are those same people you refer to, however I was easily offended by the statement. I come to online forums to share my knowledge and to help others. I do not come online to get away from the "real world" - to me, forums are the real world. You are talking to real people, getting real responses and develop real connections with some.

As to why "kids" would want to come on this forum that is adult-oriented is easy: to gain knowledge that they do not have and to participate in conversations that match their interests.

I do not want to lose the main focus of this thread, so I'd just like to say one thing in relation to the original post: We live in a modern era where the law/code of the Samurai no longer exists. There are a few that still respect what those before us have done in relation to their lives and others, but the world is changing and such ideals and philosophies are dying out and such people are a rare find.

[Mako]

I'm a bit confused myself :o I was just pointing out that Dontakui had a person in particular that fueled his discussion/rant. I assumed that you were talking to me when you were referencing the first line in this thread, hence my reply.
You're confusing me too and if I've only learned one thing in life...it's never to *assume* anything.

EDIT:

The Samurai class was abolished about 140 years ago but Bushido lives on and anyone who believes otherwise and posts on forums like this is either a troll or a complete retard imho.

[bobO]

If your a serious martial artist, I don't know how you cannot have learned to respect others. I've seen disrespect in the dojo and or kwoon, and it did not stand, neither did the one being disrespectful(not for long anyways). There are alot of people who only get respect from the barrel of a gun, this is not the way. True respect is like true love, it's earned, it's deep and from the heart and will last forever.(in theory anyway) Ps, I just had someone seriously disrespect me a few weeks ago, I can guarantee that they won't do THAT again, ever.

[FrozenIpaq]

You're confusing me too and if I've only learned one thing in life...it's never to *assume* anything.

EDIT:

The Samurai class was abolished about 140 years ago but Bushido lives on and anyone who believes otherwise and posts on forums like this is either a troll or a complete retard imho.

Indeed, I would be ignorant to say that Bushido has completely dissolved - still exists to this day but not under the same conditions as it once did. It was primarily attributed to the way of the samurai and the principles and virtues that they lived by. Those virtues are still followed today, but has more or less adapted for modern times.

@BobO - Right on with Martial Arts & respect

[Dotanuki]

I do not want to lose the main focus of this thread, so I'd just like to say one thing in relation to the original post: We live in a modern era where the law/code of the Samurai no longer exists. There are a few that still respect what those before us have done in relation to their lives and others, but the world is changing and such ideals and philosophies are dying out and such people are a rare find.

Ideals and Philosophies NEVER die out. Some may want them to, those that want them to, are scared of them. Many are too lazy or lack the fortitude to follow them. There are always those that keep the ideals alive untill we can achieve a new renaisance in which they appear again. History has a way of repeating itself.
Goose spoke of a quote from Socrates of which the youth of the day was disrespectfull. This was in Athens, soon after that Phillip and Alexander the Great conquered Greece and re-established a martial culture.
America is following a page from history, it is becoming indulgent, decadent and corrupt. Just as Rome, Greece and France of Marie Antoinette, we are not looking at a pleasant future.
It is said, those that don't learn the lessons of History are doomed to repeat them.
Cater to children and treat them as adults, respect the juvenile or ignorant opinion even though they are making an a$$ of themselves, yes, to entertain these thoughts, you were definitely raised different from me.
To come to this Forum as a new member and post this way, shows me you were obviously an indulged child also.

As a child I learned from adults, I would listen to what they had to say and then ask questions if I had any. I did not talk to them as I would my friends of the same age, I treated them as teachers and authority figures. I treat them this way to this day they deserve it.
THIS IS RESPECT!!!!!!!
Respect is owed to people such as this. Respect is NOT owed to children or people with juvenile or ignorant mentalities, because they have done nothing in life to EARN such respect.
FrozenIpaq, in life "respect" has to be earned, it is not a right you are born with!

[Mako]

Indeed, I would be ignorant to say that Bushido has completely dissolved - still exists to this day but not under the same conditions as it once did. It was primarily attributed to the way of the samurai and the principles and virtues that they lived by. Those virtues are still followed today, but has more or less adapted for modern times.
Oh really...Bushi-do means 'the way of the warrior' and wasn't attributed to the way of the samurai but was and remains a historical fact.
Your posts are a classical example of the the disrespect shown to those members with knowledge of all or some aspects of Iai-do,Nihon-to and the numerous related Martial Arts which have not been adapted for modern times which by your own admission,you have little or no knowledge and was the original point of this topic.

[FrozenIpaq]

Ideals and Philosophies NEVER die out. Some may want them to, those that want them to, are scared of them. Many are too lazy or lack the fortitude to follow them. There are always those that keep the ideals alive untill we can achieve a new renaisance in which they appear again. History has a way of repeating itself.
Goose spoke of a quote from Socrates of which the youth of the day was disrespectfull. This was in Athens, soon after that Phillip and Alexander the Great conquered Greece and re-established a martial culture.
America is following a page from history, it is becoming indulgent, decadent and corrupt. Just as Rome, Greece and France of Marie Antoinette, we are not looking at a pleasant future.
It is said, those that don't learn the lessons of History are doomed to repeat them.
Cater to children and treat them as adults, respect the juvenile or ignorant opinion even though they are making an a$$ of themselves, yes, to entertain these thoughts, you were definitely raised different from me.
To come to this Forum as a new member and post this way, shows me you were obviously an indulged child also.

As a child I learned from adults, I would listen to what they had to say and then ask questions if I had any. I did not talk to them as I would my friends of the same age, I treated them as teachers and authority figures. I treat them this way to this day they deserve it.
THIS IS RESPECT!!!!!!!
Respect is owed to people such as this. Respect is NOT owed to children or people with juvenile or ignorant mentalities, because they have done nothing in life to EARN such respect.
FrozenIpaq, in life "respect" has to be earned, it is not a right you are born with!

Please read my next post, I corrected myself - I agree that ideals/philosophies of such have not died out yet.

Also since when did I say respect was given when you were born? I never said such a thing, but all people should be respected (granted those that break the law should not be given such respect as say a teacher, but you should respect them nevertheless). The amount of respect you give to that person, I believe, depends on who they are and how they have respected you. It is always common courtesy and expected that one would respect their elders, regardless of opinion. I would never talk to my parents the way I do to a fellow friend, I think we all know that.

Your comment about "coming to these forums and posting this way" - what way are you referring to? Also I was not an indulged child growing up in anyway, don't even see how that could be relevant.

I do not wish to continue this conversation, you've seem to misunderstood some of my points that I wanted to make. Even as a new member I hoped I would not be taken as such, I respect those that have more experience then me and in no way am claiming to be an expert, so I don't see why labeling me as a new member changes what I have the right to say?

Give and you shall receive. If you do not treat someone with respect, I would say it's quite hard for them treat you with some in return (granted there are situations in society where you must respect someone who doesn't necessarily respect you in return - I would get out of that situation if possible or try to gain their respect).\

@ Mako - Way of the Warrior is what I meant to define Bushido as...I've taken history courses dealing with Eastern history and am just relaying with what I have been taught. Bushido was a way of samurai life - that's where I got the two mangled. Granted I do not and am not aware of who still practicies or follows Bushido in this modern time but I can hardly see it still being the same as it once was before. There are martial arts that have not been adapted to modern times indeed, but I'm more or less referring to the country to which I live in - America to which such traditions are hard to come by. I was part of a traditional Tang Soo Do school, so I know it is possible for tradition to live on without modern influence.

[Nanshoji]

I agree with you as well, Mako. Respect can get you far in the world, but dont be an a**kisser though, know the limits. Anyway like you said respect is something that everyone should have , but sadly most dont. If you were to be direspectful of a samurai in fuedal Japanthere would be severe consiquinces, in one era of Japan, a samurai could kill anyone he wanted on the spot if they were bieng disrespectful.

[bobO]

I say we just write this off as miscommunication, and start over. Where all here to learn, have fun and buy stuff from SOM. There are some here who have embraced the way and have made it a lifelong study or even a way of life. Some(most) of this knowledge is hard won and very precious. And so is jealousy guarded and protected and rightfully so. Also we a talking about KILLING Arts, and wielding sharp steel and such, nothing to be frivolous about(I'm not saying anyone's being frivolous). Better to ask a stupid question then make a stupid mistake, with the resulting loss of life or limb. Just my 2 cents. Went all Trip Frisk there didn't I. Nan, Just want to say that as one of our younger members, you have won the respect of more then one member of this forum. From me certainly. Goes to show it's not just about being old or having the most knowledge, Good on ya'

[jwilliams]

Well said bobO. As I sit here reading these posts, I think someone is not getting the point. Maybe it's me. I am going to add my 2 cents worth if I may. Bushido as a way of life was more than just killing your enemies, it embodied every waking (and sleeping) action of every day. It was how you treated others and expected to be treated.To treat someone with less than the utmost respect reflected poorly not only on you but your ancestors as well, for how could they not have trained you better.

I think it is sad that people say that things change in the modern day, that things are outdated. As was said ideals and values don't die out. They are killed by neglect and abuse, at great peril to those that allow it or cause it to happen. In the modern world we have t.v. shows, commercials and celebrities that make fathers out to be morons and idiots, so how are kids to learn to show respect for such a person.

Because of the modern way we have criminals brazenly committing their crimes and challenging society to do something about it. They are not held accountable for their actions, blame their parents, their upbringing or blame society, but how could have grown up to be anything but what they are given the circumstances in which they grew up. Blame the gun or the knife for the murder but not the person wielding the gun or the knife. The object is the cause not the individual. So they can disavow all responsibility for their actions, so says the modern society. We have politicians violating the public trust with their corruption and lies and the public takes it because that's just the way it is. Where else can you be a political activist/senator and live in a multi-million dollar home in such a short time. Bushido would require that you hide your face in shame because you wouldn't even be allowed the honor of seppuku. They don't even have enough shame for that though. We are already in the midst of repeating the mistakes of the past as Dotanuki said and we are in big trouble if we don't make some serious course corrections. Forget PC, political correctness not Paul Chen, and start making these people answer questions with real answers and not just double-talk. Promising change doesn't tell us what kind of change and which direction. Man, talk about a rant. Now maybe I can sleep tonight since I got some of that stuff off my chest. And this was going to be a short post. Sorry.

A great read about bushido (as explained by Mako, Dotanuki, Goose and others) is found in "The Art of Japanese Swordsmanship" by Nicklaus Suino, particularly in the section called "how to use this book".

[Mako]

Some very good posts here even with a wire or two crossed.
I'd just like to clarify that the intention of this topic wasn't to point the finger at any member/s here,it was a generalisation...it just seems to me that almost every other forum I've frequented lately has more than it's share of people who claim to be following 'the way of the warrior' but the etiquette and respect that they should have learned is reserved for the dojo and these same people are the biggest culprits when it comes to a lack of respect for others to the point where some of them are downright rude in their posts.
Present company excluded of course.;)

[bobO]

This has also puzzled me. There is a big difference between confidence and arrogance. And as dotanuki has pointed out before this is really prevalent in the JSA. In The sword of doom Mufuni plays a sword instructor, and this is how I thought a proper sensei should act. And by doing so he shows his students the proper way. Trouble is there are to many cobra kia schools out there. One of the hardest things it seems for the younger students to do any more is listen. What you learn in the dojo should be carried with you in everyday life. Of course this is only a good thing if what you learn in the dojo is correct. As nan said you don't have to kiss as#, but a little humility goes a long way. One thing that has amazed me here, is how much guy's like Dotanuki and mako can pick up on over a computer, just can't BS these guy's, and if you don't try to it opens up a wealth of infomation.:ohyeah: I also want to add that I feel I've made some true friends here at SOM forum, and this could only have happened because of the mutual respect we have shown each other. Wish I could type, cause this stuff is very important to me!

[jwilliams]

Mako as always you are right, I went way off thread with my little rant, I too wish I could type my thoughts better. what comes out is incomplete and jumbled. I think maybe as we reflect on what has been said some of us see ourselves in there and we feel defensive, so even though what was being said wasn't being directed at anyone in particular maybe our own guilt condemns us. In a general sort of way.

[Yaso]

The concept of respect varies from person to person. Your individual idea of respect varies based on your own history and personal life experiences. I've noticed through the few years I've been around that the concept of respect can be a hotbed of conflict and debate.

When I was growing up, I learned about respect from my mother who happens to be an aging hippie. It was a very idealistic and earthy version of respect that doesn't work out too well in modern day society.

When I was a teenager I moved in with my father who happens to be a former Marine. It was a rude awakening as his martial idea of respect was entirely different from everything that I had learned in my childhood. It however was a lot more practical and I tried to absorb as much as I could.

A couple more years have passed and now I am starting to see the world through my own eyes. Once again my idea of respect is changing. I'm sure that 30 years from now my ideas will have evolved even more.

In essence our ideas of respect are a lot like our ideas of religion. It is an intangible idea and varies from person to person. I don’t really think it’s worth being upset about for too long. I work retail, I’m used to dealing with people who have little or no respect for me. It is very frustrating sometimes, but I just try my best to remain humble and treat others the way I would like to be treated.

On another note I agree that children should be treated differently. The values we learn we we are young are the values that stick with us for life. We need to learn as much as we can as fast as we possibly can. Treating a child like an adult all of the time is not a good idea though. Children are rarely able to handle the responsibility associated with making their own decisions. From what I've seen it tends to backfire on the parent too. It's like treating a cat like a dog. You're probably going to wind up getting scratched.

[Mako]

Yet another great post Yaso...it's interesting to read the various interpretations and values of 'respect' from people of varying backgrounds,ages and from different parts of the world but I'm afraid you'll have to wait until tomorrow for some rep from me because I'm fresh out right now.:)

Mako as always you are right, I went way off thread with my little rant, I too wish I could type my thoughts better. what comes out is incomplete and jumbled. I think maybe as we reflect on what has been said some of us see ourselves in there and we feel defensive, so even though what was being said wasn't being directed at anyone in particular maybe our own guilt condemns us. In a general sort of way.
Nothing wrong with that post of yours J,in fact I thought it was a darn good one...did you check out the rep for it? ;)
The topic title is "Respect" and it's not confined to posts on forums,it's an opportunity for anyone to give their views on it in any form...so I don't think you went 'off topic' and who cares if you did anyway,you put your take on it across respectfully,without offending anyone and that's what really counts in any topic on a forum imho.

[bobO]

Yaso, Great Post!! As a birthday present have some rep from me! Happy Birthday!<:-P

[Tony Ferrill]

Courtesy and politesse is often confused for respect,yet they are not the same thing.I am courteous and polite to all;I respect they whom have earned my respect.
I have a pretty dry sense of humor,and my wife accuses me of being without emotion quite often.And I can pretty drily tell a person to tend to his business in a more positive way without unduly jacking him up.
My point is this-I prefer to deal with respect,period.If I am disrespected,I may or may not respond....but if I do,it will be in an honorable way.I may have little regard for what someone says;that doesn't automatically call for a comeuppence,or even a comment from me.There is respect in my reality.
JW,yours and everyone else' comments on the state of the state are my observances also.I offer this idea,that to a great extent these societal ills are due in large part from a lack of respect or regard for firstly,the state itself,and a lack of training of the youngsters to respect themselves enough to display the courtesy of listening and learning from them deserving of respect,thereby allowing selfishness to become so firmly ingrained that they become incapable of learning respect,for others or themselves.A self perpetuating morass of chaos,ultimately ending with a strong,tyrannical government imposed to straighten it out?
Brothers and friends I think respect has to start at home.A teacher of mine once said that one should give respect,and expect respect,and finally demand respect.Upon pondering this statement,I realized that this man had taught me all he could,that it was time to move on.He was still fighting with his demons.This was decided in a non-judgmental way,unemotionally,as I am fond of this man to this day.I just go elsewhere(the cushion!!)for my spiritual knowledge!Many here understand this!Respectfully posted-Tony

[jwilliams]

Yaso, Great Post!! As a birthday present have some rep from me! Happy Birthday!<:-P
Yes happy birthday Yaso. Ditto on the post.

[Dotanuki]

This thread is really getting good, fantastic post Yaso, and yours was great too JW, and Tony, we need to hear from you more often. Nanshoji's was good too as Bob-O, always.

I think Yaso hit it on the head with the definitions.
Here where I live, a few years back we had a teen gang that beat up and robbed and 80 yr. old woman. In broad daylight on her way home from the store. She died from her injuries. The members were caught and put away. They have been just released [being juvies]. One of the members after just being released, shot and killed an older man, because he was being disrespectfull toward him.
Here is a fool, after beating an 80 yr. old woman to death, with the help of his gang [couldn't even do that by himself] to rob her, thinks he somehow warrants any respect from society?
Yes, I would say his definition is different from mine.
See Nanshoji, you don't have to live in Feudal Japan, to be cut down for not showing the proper respect. If you define that as respect.

Truthfully, FrozenIpaq's idea of respect is shared by a great majority.
This is why we have pedophiles starting their own web sites and demanding they be treated as a minority with rights.
Everybody has the right to an opinion, but you can't demand respect for that opinion.
Do I have to respect the opinion of someone who thinks it is alright to have sex with children or babies? I think not!
As Yaso stated, we all have different definitions, and over time and experiences they very often change.

Respect in the Martial Arts.
When I was a kid there was a Jesuit Monastary by me located deep in the woods. I used to sneak in there. The monks all wore brown woolen robes, and had taken vows of silence. The monastary was very austere and spartan in appearance [only the neccessities]. You would never hear a human sound there, the place seemed to radiate with a spirituality. Sometimes you could see a solitary monk in meditation or prayer. As a kid, I thought if ever there would be those who entered Heaven, it would be these.

Then I would travel a few miles down to the Catholic Church and see people dressed in the Finest clothes, Expensive and almost Gaudy looking Churches, and the priests dressed in expensive robes.

As a kid, I used to wonder, "How can this be the same Religion?"

This is also a metaphor for the Martial Arts, as I look upon mainstream martial arts as mainstream religion, we have our McChurchs and we have our McDojo's. As stated by some, it is what you want out of anything in life. Life and definitions of it, sometimes is just our perceptions of it. Same applies to the martial arts. Some of us appear to be living in a monastary, perceptions? Why were the Sohei [warrior monks] held in high respect!
If I offended any in the Catholic Religion I apoligise, this was only a metaphor and only the Catholic church has those wonderfull monastaries.